Auteur Sujet: Borodino map update!  (Lu 100726 fois)

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Re : Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #30 le: 27 juillet 2011, 05:27:00 am »
Hello,

Please, on this Forum, it's not possible to talk about Torrent and other tools for exchanging stuff... just for respecting the copyright and other laws.

JMM

Ok, it's understand!
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #31 le: 27 juillet 2011, 05:43:16 am »
Thanks Jacquinot,

Do you have easy access to biographies or genealogic datas from old Russia ?  I mean ca. 1600/1800....

I hope Axeman returned safe to Babushka and found a good bortsch with  pirojkies to regain strength :lol:

It is just the end of the beginning :mrgreen:

oster

Ps: I tried Torrent but found only movies or TV -mostly XXXX :oops: - were are the books ?


You can find some biographies in internet. Do you have ancestors in Russia?

Bortsch :p, it's very tastefully, i like it with 100 gram of vodka and salted cucumber :smile:
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Far from Borodino map...
« Réponse #32 le: 27 juillet 2011, 12:32:14 pm »
: Александр Иванович Остерман-Толстой; 1772 – 12 February 1857)

Although not  an ancestor, my family name is Ostermann and came apparently from the same part of ancient Germany than the Grand father of this Héroïc general*. The link is probably dubious -if there is one :?: but it was a great pleasure to read his short biography and portrait in Hourtoulle's book.
 International Wikipedia ( the russian one is perhaps more deatailed ?) give some more infos which open my imagination and if you have more about the origins from today Rheineland or Westphalia , I'ld be very interested  . My first Ostermann ancestor is registered back to ca 1510 as coming from there to Alsace, both regions being connected at the time (commercial links or rulers families???) All documents I saw were in old german sometimes mixed with latin....
I agree for the vodka , but 100grs looks a bit heavy for my aged organism - and what about blinis with some very small black balls to begin :lol:?
Oster
* He lost an arm, was it at Borodino where he distinguished once more?
Si tu veux la PAIX, connais la GUERRE  !  Gaston Bouthoul

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #33 le: 27 juillet 2011, 15:28:56 pm »
Count Alexander Ivanovich Ostermann-Tolstoy (1771 – 11 February 1857) was a General of infantry (1817), the hero of the Patriotic War of 1812.
Alexander Ivanovich Tolstoy was born into the family of Ivan Matveeviča Tolstoy (1746-1808) (whose mother was the daughter of count a. Count Osterman's Corps, diplomat, companions of Peter the great) and Agrafeny Il′iničny Bibikovoj. Empress Catherine II allowed herself during the young Tolstoy in 1796 to take the title, the name and coat of arms of kind Ostermanov from his childless dvorûrodnyh grandparents — Fyodor and Ivan count Osterman's Corps.
A. Tolstoy on customs from a very early age recorded for military service in the life guard Preobrazhensky Regiment. The 14-year-old age he was an ensign for seniority. Military service began in 1788, in the war against the Turks, was in the army of Prince Potemkin. Participated in 1790 under the command of Suvorov's storm of Izmail, awarded for distinguished order of St. George, 4th class. In 1793 he served in the egerskom package formed Bugsky m. i. Kutuzov — husband Emperor of Catherine Il′iničny Bibikovoj.
In February 1798, Osterman-Tolstoy, taking the title and surname of Countess Ostermanov, promoted to General-majors at the age of 28 years and appointed Chief of Šlissel′burgskogo musketeer Regiment. Suddenly all the 2 months removed from military service and rank valid statskogo Adviser, stripped from military service. The reason the doghouse of King Paul I was simple, the new King did not like the favourite of his mother, Catherine II. Only after accession to the throne Alexander Osterman-Tolstoy was in 1801 to return to the army.
With the beginning of the wars against Napoleon in 1805, General Ostermann at the theatre of hostilities. In 1806, promoted to Lieutenant.
In the spring of 1807, the territory of Prussia took military actions against the Corps of Marshal Ney, who sought to cut off the Russians from Koenigsberg. 24 may, avant-garde Bagration, which was a division of count Osterman's Corps-Tolstoy, took a hit than the enemy. In this battle Ostermann was wounded in the leg by a bullet the play-off. In October 1810, Osterman, jacked up the wound, the resignation of the right to wear uniforms, but immediately went back into service with the start of the Patriotic War of 1812.
During the war he commanded the 4th Infantry Corps of the 1st Western army Barclay de Tolly, scored ostrovno and Borodine. Under Near Osterman-Tolstoy was wounded, but after a few days back.
Earl is famous for its words, spoken to them in the battle of ostrovno: "Violently boomed an enemy artillery and vyryvala entire series brave the Russian regiments. It was difficult to carry our guns, charges they rasstrelâlis′ the guns have fallen. Ask Earl: "what should I do?" "Nothing, he is responsible, is stand and die!" (C.N. Glinka).
In the campaign of 1813, Osterman-Tolstoy glorified his name on August 17 in brilliant battle of Kulm where he lost his left hand, one heart. Russian artist Vasily Kondratievich Sazonov painted depicting count Osterman's Corps-Tolstoy during the surgery, has over him at the battle of Kulm. Even earlier, on May 9, 1813 in the battle under the Baucenom he was wounded by a bullet in the shoulder.
King of Prussia awarded count Osterman's Corps Great Prussian Iron Cross, an award which was presented in their history only seven times. Victory at Kulm closed the Napoleon road in Bohemia, and the people of the Czech Republic made the hero of the battle of the gift. In the State Historical Museum is the hrabromu Cup, podnesennyj Ostermanu from the Czech women's in memory of Kulm on 17 August 1813, and jacket, which was Osterman tolstoi when injured.
Osterman returned to Petersburg in early 1814, and was immediately appointed as aide-de-camp to General Alexander i. in this capacity until his death the emperor. In 1816, he was appointed commander of the Grenadier Corps. In August 1817 gets Chin-from-infantry, but his health after a severe wounds was so shaken that he be released the same year and dismissed from the Corps in indefinite leave, while continuing to be listed in the military service.
In the early 1820s Osterman-Tolstoy lived in Saint Petersburg in his home on the promenade.
During the Suppression of the Decembrist revolt in 1825 some rebel officers (e. Zavalishin, n. Bestuzhev and Kuhelbecker) took refuge in the House of count Osterman's Corps-Tolstoy, located on the promenade. Among the Decembrists were relatives of count Osterman's Corps, for whom he unsuccessfully strove.
After Nicholas I's accession to the throne, not poladiv with the new emperor, Osterman-Tolstoy went to Italy.
In 1828, count Osterman traveled be Emperor Nicholas I, to offer their services during the Turkish campaign; his proposal was not adopted. Count Osterman's corps finally dismissed from the service with permission to travel abroad. Alexander Ivanovich again went to Rome, then settled in Geneva, where he spent almost 20 years, occasionally leaving abroad.
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Re : Far from Borodino map...
« Réponse #34 le: 27 juillet 2011, 15:44:45 pm »
: Àëåêñàíäð Èâàíîâè÷ Îñòåðìàí-Òîëñòîé; 1772 – 12 February 1857)

Although not  an ancestor, my family name is Ostermann and came apparently from the same part of ancient Germany than the Grand father of this Héroïc general*. The link is probably dubious -if there is one :?: but it was a great pleasure to read his short biography and portrait in Hourtoulle's book.
 International Wikipedia ( the russian one is perhaps more deatailed ?) give some more infos which open my imagination and if you have more about the origins from today Rheineland or Westphalia , I'ld be very interested  . My first Ostermann ancestor is registered back to ca 1510 as coming from there to Alsace, both regions being connected at the time (commercial links or rulers families???) All documents I saw were in old german sometimes mixed with latin....
I agree for the vodka , but 100grs looks a bit heavy for my aged organism - and what about blinis with some very small black balls to begin :lol:?
Oster
* He lost an arm, was it at Borodino where he distinguished once more?

Blinis with small black balls? It is black caviar i think? Black caviar very expensive i usually buy red caviar. But if you come to Astrakhan you can buy cheep black caviar from poachers(warning!!! It is illegal!!!) ;)
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Sorry for Borodino fans....
« Réponse #35 le: 27 juillet 2011, 16:15:43 pm »
Spasiba Jacquinot,

 :oops:Apologizes to all Borodino fans , this story is probably misplaced here...
The story is very impressive with much more living History than I'd found before.
Too bad I can't say it was my ancestor !
But, with such nobility roots, probably  I'ld have not survived the 1917 Révolution and following years :mrgreen:.
I just hope sometimes ca 1500/1600 there were some links somewhere in Germany - but Ostermann is quite common name in German.
Anyway , many thanks for your fast response and such an interesting story of a général almost unknown outside of Russia!
If we have more personnal exchanges I guess we'ld be find another place  ;) ( Tavern?)
Oster
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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #36 le: 27 juillet 2011, 17:16:30 pm »
The final variant of my map with French map like bottom layer! Looks cool!!! :p
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #37 le: 27 juillet 2011, 17:42:39 pm »
In practice satellite map + french historical map how user map .

Only 2 roads made with editor
1)road ->LOP + Borodino+LOP
2)road->go through Utitza

And the other are old roads or little rivers (of french historical map) ?
The map is very suggestive,well Jacquinot.
« Modifié: 27 juillet 2011, 17:56:50 pm par Alfiere »
Danube camp - 3rd Coaltion camp

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Re : Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #38 le: 27 juillet 2011, 17:57:55 pm »
In practice satellite map + french historical map how user map .

Only 2 roads made with editor
1)road ->LOP + Borodino+LOP
2)road->go though Utzika

And the other are old roads (of french historical map) ?


No other roads on this map, only two main roads 1) New Smolensk road.
                                                                                              2) Old Smolensk road.

On the North of map but over the limit of map in reality was Gzhatsky road (short road to Mozhaisk), that's why Kutuzov build many redoubts on right flank, he scare that French go over his right flank on Gzhatsky road and cut New Smolensk road before Mozhaisk.
« Modifié: 27 juillet 2011, 17:59:34 pm par Jacquinot »
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #39 le: 27 juillet 2011, 18:03:41 pm »
I add little rivers(brooks) using googlemap and in compliance with relief, on french map not all brooks looks correct, but after 200years relief can change a little.

Maybe you mean old paths?

I draw 90% of old paths from French map.
« Modifié: 27 juillet 2011, 18:10:05 pm par Jacquinot »
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #40 le: 27 juillet 2011, 18:13:51 pm »
Now , to see better i notice the brooks made with editor.
I am speaking of brooks that enter into main river.
Thank you for reply.
Danube camp - 3rd Coaltion camp

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #41 le: 27 juillet 2011, 19:09:17 pm »
Congratulations Jacquinot,
You worked hard today but the result looks spectacular.
Following your docs, I searched  Ostrowno and found Jacquinot charged Ostermann  at once :!:
Amazing, no - A good sample of a small napoleonic encounter between to very different armies : large cavalry -under Murat himself- against mostly Infantry unprepared.
When are you offering the map :smile:
Oster
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Re : Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #42 le: 27 juillet 2011, 20:23:47 pm »
The final variant of my map with French map like bottom layer! Looks cool!!! :p

Impressive!  :shock:

Congratulation, one of the best Histwar map!

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #43 le: 27 juillet 2011, 20:26:04 pm »
i agree... fantastic map !!!! ;)

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Re :Ostrowno for Jacquinot
« Réponse #44 le: 31 juillet 2011, 18:35:05 pm »
Hello,

I'd not found how to join the map on private messages :roll: :roll: :roll:
Hope you'll have it there.
On GoogEarth I found an Ostrov but in Bielo Russia- Do you think it's the same ?
Thanks,
Oster
Si tu veux la PAIX, connais la GUERRE  !  Gaston Bouthoul