Auteur Sujet: Divisional Command  (Lu 4410 fois)

Hors ligne AJ

  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1845
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley
    • Napoleonic Battle Corp
Divisional Command
« le: 03 mars 2010, 01:01:26 am »
I know it's been brought up before, but "The squeaky wheel is the first to get oiled".  I would truly relish divisional command.  In my humble opinion, Histwar will not be complete without it.  In order to truly re-fight our beloved battles, we have to have the ability to say "Jerome, get you Division over that bridge, and establish a defensive line as a Bridge head, and hang onto it until I can get the rest of the Corps over", or something like that (but probably with a French accent).  I use the example of Bridgeheads because it's classical.  I just fought Hanau and had to control 5 units individually to establish a Bridgehead, while the rest of the battle was raging around my ears and although it was fun, I was getting my ar** kicked somewhere else.

Hors ligne Markwooda

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Messages: 50
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #1 le: 08 mars 2010, 22:02:50 pm »
I totally agree it would be great to detach a division in the same way you can detach a unit or even a brigade for that matter in smaller battles. The possibility most be there because when you hold your cursor over a unit it highlights the other units belonging to the same division.

The same goes for the order of battle editor - rather than being restricted to Corps Commander and then Divisional etc, it would be nice to have the free access to tab through the commanders till you find the one you want. For example when you are creating an OOB for a smaller clash you have to create Corps and change the name of commanders to the relevant divisional commander or in some cases brigade commander. I know you can create a CEH of fifty to create a corps, but it restricts you from creating a specfic OOB in some cases, due to the balancing percentages.

anyway to me a divisonal command option would be a obvious improvement, there a numerous cases for a single division swinging a battle a crucial moment.


Hors ligne AJ

  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1845
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley
    • Napoleonic Battle Corp
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #2 le: 09 mars 2010, 01:12:45 am »

Markwooda, for a more in depth discussion of the subject read:

http://www.histwar.org/forum/index.php/topic,4412.0.html

Hors ligne Markwooda

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Messages: 50
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #3 le: 09 mars 2010, 21:17:31 pm »
Thanks I'll check it out

Hors ligne Markwooda

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Messages: 50
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #4 le: 10 mars 2010, 21:38:56 pm »
Sorry I can't access this link, it must be for grenadiers

Hors ligne AJ

  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1845
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley
    • Napoleonic Battle Corp
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #5 le: 10 mars 2010, 23:44:23 pm »
Markwooda, you are quite right, here is the original post, however I can't post the 43 replies, They are private for "Grenadier" only. As the original post there was mine I am free to share it.

Since I purchased HLG on the day of release, I have become captivated and immersed in JMM's marvelous creation.  At present I am not working so I spend at least 4 hours per day every day, fighting battles.  During this time I have arrived at a conclusion:

That there are two changes that need to be made, which will have a major impact on the control and realism of the game, and will elevate JMM's creation to the level of genius.

The first and in my humble opinion, the most important mod HLG will ever receive, is the introduction of Divisional Command.  I don't think HLG will be complete and will truly imitate the tactics of the time without it. A Corps Commander gives his orders to Divisional Commanders, Divisional Commanders to his Brigades and Regiments.  As it stands right now we can issue an order to a Corps Commander and to an individual Regiment but not to the Division.  The Division Command is essential for tactical reasons e.g. establishing a Bridgehead or taking a village or town. After all Reille did not order his whole Corps or individual regiments, to take Hougoumont, but rather Prince Jerome's Division. I know that we can order individual regiments to act as a Division but we can't give them "Attack, Defend & Diversion orders".

The second change should address the "Support Order".  This order should stay, I believe it has been much misunderstood. As I understand it, the order instructs a unit to support another unit that has been given a mission. If that primary unit fails by Rout or any other means, the support unit takes over the mission (see the manual chapter 3 "User Interface", "Support a Unit").  The giant error many including myself,  have made, is to use this order believing it will protect Artillery from attack, especially by Cavalry, even to the extent of reporting its non performance as a bug.  I don't think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that this order was designed to protect, it was designed to support,  so the second Mod I would like to see, is a new Regimental Order "Defend Artillery" or something like it.  This Order would establish a Doctrine to the unit given the command, to:

"Defend the Artillery unit as it's secondary mission, with it's own self defense as its primary mission, until relieved of that duty". 

The parameters e.g. at what distance an enemy unit becomes a threat to the Artillery being supported, would be better understood by JMM.  This order should probably only be a Cavalry option, as it is Cavalry that is the most dangerous threat to Artillery, and the threat posed by Infantry attacking Artillery is far less. By keeping the "Support Order" as it is and introducing the new "Defend Artillery Order" the complaints of many about their Artillery being wiped out ad hoc by marauding Cavalry without any support, is solved. That is not to say that Artillery was not lost to Cavalry but not at the rate we see in the game.

Thank you for tolerating the ramblings of this "Old Gronard" but it is by sharing our thoughts, even when flawed, that progress is achieved.


Hors ligne Soldat Louis

  • Major
  • ***
  • Messages: 599
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #6 le: 11 mars 2010, 00:36:38 am »
I fully agree that the division command will be a huge improvement.

I also agree that unprotected artillery is a big issue but one have to be cautious with the introduction of a direct "protect artillery order". The reason is that, as already experimented in previous simulation, there is a risk that artillery, especially a "grande batterie"  could quickly become too powerfull if it would be too tighly protected by "attached" units. If this is the case, the risk is important to end up with a game in which artillery only will command.

I think that a compromise could be an order that holds cavalry units (or inf)  in a very resticted area, letting them attacking any approaching enemy unit. The mission will then be to secure a position rather than to act only for the sake of art if the art unit is under direct threat. This behavior might be more historical and will give a chance to the attacking units to weaken the position first and then attack batteries with a decent rate of success.

Anyway, if the art protection order is introduced another possibility would be to counterbalance this by  modifying the AI in such a way that a Cav or inf unit will attack a battery only by the side,  or from the back never (or rarely) in front. If the AI detect such a possibility, it should become a priority taget for the attacking units. It will prevent us getting very angry when seeing a cav unit passing nearby a 12 £ batterie with no losses to attack a inf regiment behind...

Actually the problem with artillery in the current game state is due to two factors:  first cav units are too agressives and, when deployed in first line (or even in second) are rapidly used and no more remain available to protect artillery (may be a modification in the doctrine or the initiative, could modify this). Second, artillery (especially horse artillery) have a tendency to deploy far ahead the corps during initial deployments but also when called for support.

Hors ligne AJ

  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1845
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley
    • Napoleonic Battle Corp
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #7 le: 11 mars 2010, 01:39:34 am »
I like your style, Soldat Louis!!!!!!!!!!

Hors ligne Soldat Louis

  • Major
  • ***
  • Messages: 599
Re : Divisional Command
« Réponse #8 le: 11 mars 2010, 08:44:38 am »
 ;)