Auteur Sujet: Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?  (Lu 2000 fois)

Hors ligne Mr. Doran

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Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« le: 30 mars 2019, 06:38:43 am »
I was playing the Eylau scenario from the mods section and something bizarre happened with the reinforcements. Davout and Ney at some point during the deployment phase became visible on the map and could be moved around and given orders. I swear they were not there at first but I had at the deployment screen up for some time and they appeared at some point at they're according LOPs. What is stranger is that they were still on the map when the battle begun and could be interacted with. The Russian left wing eventually ran into Davout's static men. The units would defend themselves but could not be moved it seemed.

At that point I gave up and reloaded the scenario. When I did neither Davout or Ney were present on the field as I would expect and could not be ordered. I added additional corp commanders on the map to act as divisional commanders if that could have messed with anything but it seemed to work fine after re-launching the scenario. 

Here is a zip file of the replay and armies used if it helps determine if it is a bug.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs917zqv2d0kh5h/Eylau%20replay.zip?dl=0


Davout at the beginning of the battle.




Russians interacting with Davout even when catergorized as "reinforcements" and are still immobile.


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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #1 le: 31 mars 2019, 00:54:44 am »
Hello Doran,

we had a nice chat on Discord some time ago.
Eylau was a battle JMM was working on as a stand-alone title like Austerlitz.
The one you are playing is the community constructed battle.
Histwar N was and still is a BETA for the community, with major improvements
coming out in the near future https://www.histwar.net/news.
HWN and its earlier Les Grognards both have issues regarding reinforcement arrival
(represented by 2 flags usually at each side rear center)
one flag can be placed on the flank of your deployment area but only up-to the border
with the middle ground.
There was no fix for this, and I'm not sure if JMM has fixed it to be included in the patch
to come.
The stand-alone battle of Eylau (mini-campaign) was a title he had announced
was coming with the new improved HWN engine and new graphics.



`` Non ridere, non lugere, neque detestari, sed inteligere``
Spinoza

Hors ligne Mr. Doran

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #2 le: 31 mars 2019, 04:02:26 am »
Yes I understand the reinforcements come from the LOPs. My question was if there was any explanation that would explain why the reinforcements were prompted to appear during the deployment phase of the battle and consequentially were on the map during the actual battle despite being immobilized and unable to be ordered. 

Side question:

Is it known if divisional and brigade command will be implemented in the mythical GUI patch? There is reference to it in GUI selections in the screenshots posted in March.

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Re : Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #3 le: 31 mars 2019, 13:23:46 pm »
...

Side question:

Is it known if divisional and brigade command will be implemented in the mythical GUI patch? There is reference to it in GUI selections in the screenshots posted in March.

JMM said, that it will come with the "next patch". But is it the next patch to be released or is it the one he will be working on after this patch? I dont know. Thats not clear.

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #4 le: 01 avril 2019, 08:48:52 am »
Hi,

A new function is implemented for displaying only the viewed units.
I have to verify the reinforcements are not displayed, like all units out of map.

For AI Division/brigade... I hope the tests for these AI will give good results for the next release. Otherwise, this part of AI will be added after.

JMM

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #5 le: 01 avril 2019, 09:35:10 am »
For divisions and brigades will we be able to define frontage, formation, reserve, etc...  or will it be more limited in terms of general orders or it will it be fully AI control? Will there be an open-beta for the patch? I'm sure there are many users, including myself, who would love to finally play-test any version of the patch that we have been waiting so many years to see.

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #6 le: 01 avril 2019, 12:02:21 pm »
IA Division/Brigade is a new part of the engine... there are 4 IAs : Great Tactical (mono only), Corp, Div/Brig/ regiment units.

At this day, the GUI for entering order isn't written so there are 2 options :
- full definition (frontage, organisation, formation, reserve).. but immediat order only (like for regiment)
- reduced definition (only location and formation)...
Do you have an idea ? it is the moment :-)

When the internal test will be right, I'll open a new beta test team for checking the new release...

JMM

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Re : Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #7 le: 01 avril 2019, 16:05:46 pm »

At this day, the GUI for entering order isn't written so there are 2 options :
- full definition (frontage, organisation, formation, reserve).. but immediat order only (like for regiment)
- reduced definition (only location and formation)...
Do you have an idea ? it is the moment :-)


I think you said it yourself. Full definition of order would give us the most amount of control for Divisional and Brigade movements. The best thing that we have at the moment is loading each side with as many corps commanders at once to act as divisional commanders but of course 11 is never enough once you get to a large enough OOB. Which leads me to my point, the corps level AI works well enough as ad-hoc divisional commanders but we just don't have enough of them. Even if we simply had a massive increase in the number of commanders we could have on the field, such as 22 instead of 11, would be a massive step-up in our ability to have divisional commanders and give our corps very specific orders of attack.

The corps AI algorithms recycled into divisional command works well enough as a stand in for a stand-alone purpose built divisional/brigade command. The types of deployments we can use at a Corps level are more or less similar enough to what we need at a divisional level. But as I say, the problem simply is that we do not have access to enough commanders.

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #8 le: 02 avril 2019, 16:14:44 pm »
Hello,
It is imporatnt to keep delayed orders for brigade/division levels. Otherwise we will fall in the same biais we had before when playing against a human opponent: too much micromanagement and thus a bonus for the players having a  defensive attitude at the beginning of the battle (explaining why we had so many draw, as nobody wanted to take the initiative).
It would be great if the Comander in Chief could order a division (or even a single unit) to attack a village. But this shoulsd be with the realistic delay corresponding to the distance and the time needed for the estafette. Also, it would be  perfect if one player could control a corps and be able to recieve delayed orders (writen) for the CiC and could  manage his division/units with realistic delayed order. Then it will be a real simulation and lots of fun when playing in multiplayers mode (4/4 or even 8/8). Of course assuming that the players will have enough fairplay spirit not to communicate by skype or phone during the battle...

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Re : Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #9 le: 02 avril 2019, 16:59:04 pm »
Hello,
It is imporatnt to keep delayed orders for brigade/division levels.

OK... order to Division / Briagde will be like to Corps... with optional delay :-)

JMM

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Re : Re : Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #10 le: 02 avril 2019, 18:13:39 pm »
OK... order to Division / Briagde will be like to Corps... with optional delay :-)

JMM

Yes, its best if players can choose between several options in the game settings before.
Like Soldat Louis said, the most important point is, that there is a possible order delay through the whole hirarchy of the OOB and a direct courier line from privileged commanders (CiC, Corps) to a formation (Div, Bde).

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #11 le: 06 avril 2019, 15:42:44 pm »
This time playing Eylau when Davout arrived he was unwilling to fulfill any order under any circumstance sitting idle with no activity; his units were able to be ordered individual. Does this happen sometimes for reinforcements as a general bug?

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Re : Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #12 le: 06 avril 2019, 17:18:05 pm »
This time playing Eylau when Davout arrived he was unwilling to fulfill any order under any circumstance sitting idle with no activity; his units were able to be ordered individual. Does this happen sometimes for reinforcements as a general bug?


Hello Doran,

we had a nice chat on Discord some time ago.
Eylau was a battle JMM was working on as a stand-alone title like Austerlitz.
The one you are playing is the community constructed battle.
Histwar N was and still is a BETA for the community, with major improvements
coming out in the near future https://www.histwar.net/news.
HWN and its earlier Les Grognards both have issues regarding reinforcement arrival
(represented by 2 flags usually at each side rear center)
one flag can be placed on the flank of your deployment area but only up-to the border
with the middle ground.
There was no fix for this, and I'm not sure if JMM has fixed it to be included in the patch
to come.
The stand-alone battle of Eylau (mini-campaign) was a title he had announced
was coming with the new improved HWN engine and new graphics.

Hors ligne Mr. Doran

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #13 le: 06 avril 2019, 21:57:39 pm »
The reinforcements show up at the LOPs as expected. My question is, is it normal bug for the corp commanders that arrive to not be able to be ordered and then follow those orders once they are given.

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Re : Reinforcement Question- Possible Bug?
« Réponse #14 le: 09 avril 2019, 04:39:08 am »
Hi Doran,

the delay you are noticing is not a bug, but the actual Corps AI maneuvering the Corps
until he's done( with some random delay built in) access is denied.
you should be able to access the Corps CO directly and depending on the simulation level you chose at the
start of the battle.
I have noticed as well the behavior you are describing. Success rate for reinforcement
coming in at all was possibly the most pressing fix.
As far as enemy blocking arrival I have never tested for it, so that may be a further cause
of access interdiction. The actual reinforcement flag shouldn't be visible to the other side.
and neither should be the LOS (in my opinion) that should be discovered and then revealed.

As you know it takes at least a division to cover /defend the LOS (I might be mistaken).
Cheers


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