Auteur Sujet: Is this game dead?  (Lu 11476 fois)

Hors ligne Simon

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Is this game dead?
« le: 04 juin 2014, 18:22:36 pm »
There has not been an update for half a year and it is not like the game does not need one! The current version does not even associate regiments with brigades properly (so how is the AI working really?). I'm informed that an artillery battery has been destroyed - in the first 30 seconds, before anything has moved, much less closed to artillery range.

After all these years, I was hoping to have something playable by now!!!

And before anyone starts on an indignation trip, please remember that I have now bought this game twice - without ever being able to play it once...

Hors ligne Scots Grey

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #1 le: 04 juin 2014, 23:34:24 pm »
Good points.
I feel the same way, bought twice. Can't believe I fell for the same hype twice. Won't be spending any more on this dead horse.
Suppose to have been updated in February.
Not only are the patches/upgrades lacking but also the information to explain to paying customers what is going on.

Hors ligne sandman

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #2 le: 05 juin 2014, 07:56:15 am »
Yes indeed, there are some questionable things, I guess.

JMM formerly announced, that the planned upgrades will be presented in time, because most of the features were already completed, and the upcoming could be implemented without mayor problems.
Of course this fact became part of our expectations.
Also the current frequency of patches is a certain aspect, since there are issues to be overhauled without any doubt.

Still I believe the Histwar Team is more a one-man-army than a team. Although there are people other than JMM who might be working on it a lot, JMM himself probably manages more than 90% of the whole project.
BTW I was asking myself what happened to graphics-guy, Romain. Wether his job might be mostly completed, or he isnt active any more for some reason? Fact is, that his last posting is from the last year.

Finally the HistWar-affine got to realize, that the whole development of the project is a history of delays. I follow the story since about 2006, when people often visited the website of a certain puplisher awaiting the soon announced release. Then is took another couple of years for HW:LG to appear.
We all, and probably also game developers underestimate things. Especially the creation of such a complex AI system, which the game longs for, was an outstanding feature in the world of computer-games, if it could finally be sucessful.

I am rather sure that there is a will to carry on and to finalize the project to an achievable end. Always remember that much of HW is about idealism, not nessecairily commercial motivation.
When HW:N was released in an early state, we ve been informed that it is also about founding-means to save the ongoing project.

As another poster mentioned before: Its a matter of patience and tolerance in spite of the complexity of programming and underestimating the unforeseen problems.

I dont know myself, if in the end HW will be completed to a satisfying state. But I believe JMM continues with all he can to aim for that target.

ATM I prevent myself from frustration by playing rarely and not participating in MP. Many things in the game already work rather nice, but unfortunately some stupid actions of the AI or the engine can ruin a well going process.

Hors ligne JMM

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Game isn't dead :-))
« Réponse #3 le: 05 juin 2014, 14:22:40 pm »
The HW team works a lot on all tasks...

a) the new shell (histwar.exe) is operational on Vista and W7/8... unlucky, after updating our developing tool (Visual Studio), we have to adjust the parameters for building the XP version... This new version will be implemented in the next release.
b) We are working on the implementation of the new GUI for HW:N. After a first "bad implementation", the first part of the new GUI is running fine. We'll display some screenshots about this new GUI. Elie (Von-Clausewitz) is working on the second part and we hope good results very soon.
c) Romain works on the graphics. New buildings are ready and included in the next version. Romain is working on the set of new animations.
d) During these last months, I worked on different parts:
- implementation of new process for organising the buildings,
- new structure of program in order to share the tasks GUI and 3D Displays in two parts
- precise definition of AI (Division, Brigade)
- huge activity for fixing the different bugs such as bad behaviours of Artillery, locking of Corps, crossing on the bridge and so on,... but yet there are some bad behaviours and I must fix these issues; this activity needs a lot of time... and I can't go faster...

You are right... we are late on the planning... I hope we'll add no new time for the development.

Sorry for the delay... No a real news : I would like to quickly finish  ;)
My intention is that everyone is happy with this project begun 20 years ago... and I hope I can give you the best...

JMM

Hors ligne Gunner24

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #4 le: 05 juin 2014, 19:36:10 pm »
Thanks for the update JMM.

HW has been (or rather IS) one heck of an undertaking, I think it fair to say it has taken a lot of patience from EVERYONE to stay with it due to all kinds of difference reasons.  I have been around since about 2003-04 (ish) and have played MP since the very first day in Jan 2010 when HWLG was released.  Even I have found things very hard this last few months, but HW is unlike any other game I have ever seen (or ever will see for that matter) and deserves a while longer for JMM (and small team) to get it right.  There is a lot of "good stuff" on the way once the "bugs" and "technical issues" have been fixed.

Answer to question : No, but most will understand why some people would say yes, as on a bad day, I have wondered the same thing, but on a good day, I think we have to give JMM more time.......I have often wondered if this is too much for one person (to do the guts of the programming I mean) but it is so very complex maybe that is the only way it could ever have been made.  It is clear no "commercial" Company will ever even attempt such a massive undertaking, so it is HW, or nothing - well worth a serious thought if NAP warfare is your main (or only) interest !!.

Roll on the next fully working HWN patch that people can get behind and show some support for, perhaps things will look better then, but mean while, count to 100, slowly, and hold on..............



Gunner24
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http://napbc.freeforums.org/

Hors ligne Théodoricus

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #5 le: 05 juin 2014, 19:53:29 pm »
The HW team works a lot on all tasks...
JMM
Thanks for these news on your works.
Keep heading towards the goal !

Théo

Hors ligne Uxbridge

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #6 le: 06 juin 2014, 23:45:50 pm »
Like Sandman I have stopped playing HWN.  I wait for the improvements patiently.  I don't want to spend any more time learning the interface if it is going to change.

JMM, your blog has not updated since March 14.  This makes no difference to me, I have already paid for HWN. But it must surely work against newcomers who may well conclude that nothing is happening with the development.  A few words perhaps once a week would show that work is continuing.
Has anyone seen my leg?

Hors ligne Simon

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #7 le: 07 juin 2014, 15:27:28 pm »
At one time, the slightest hint of criticism would have produced an avalanche of denial and indignation, so it is welcome that there is a more realistic view of things.

Perhaps the reason for this is the time-scale over which this project has now ran. It's been so many years now that one is forced to wonder if a satisfactory conclusion will ever be reached. The sheer number of immediately evident errors is worrying and the thought occurs as to how many problems there may be under the surface - say with the AI.  There are too many problems to list here.

The UI has always been a huge shot in the foot. It's difficult to imagine an interface that could be worse (sorry JMM but it's true). All the principles that apply to human assimilation of information are violated. It's often difficult to discriminate between a bug and a misunderstanding of the interface.

I'm not optimistic that a new interface will be much better though - or at least not as good as it should be. I would have designed and programmed it myself a year ago if asked. I guarantee everyone would be very pleased.

Realistically, the game remains unplayable as anything approaching a 'realistic' simulation. That the rate of progress has become so slow is indication of some or all of the following: -

Waning enthusiasm for development (perhaps understandable in the light of poor sales performance).
A flawed original design platform that is making the elimination of problems and further development unduly difficult.
Inefficient project management / lack of manpower and time resources.
Simply too many problems to correct
Difficulties posed by the UI to play-testing and development

JMM, I know how difficult all this stuff is to produce, so don't think for a minute that I do not appreciate it or fully  and sincerely sympathise with you. My main concerns are that once you start taking money, the game has to work (better than this); the previous project planning and openness to the right kind of additional  help  have been questionable and just when will this game work properly(?)...

Hors ligne sandman

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #8 le: 09 juin 2014, 12:11:15 pm »
In my opinion its just the wrong time to question HW in such a harsh way.

There is announced a patch soon. Also an upgrade should be upcoming not too far in the future. JMM spoke about huge improvements of the AI and engine. Interesting features were promised too, especially a new UI.

I think it would be appropriate to check these soon expected features first, before talking about a dead project.

Then we ll see if there is a promissing progress and a perspective to get what we all want. I dont think everything will be perfect after the next measurements, but it is a much better base for judgements. Maybe the new features cause even more problems. I just dont know.

So give it one more chance. Why not wait a couple of days or a few weeks, before speculating about death and hopelessness. I mean its simply not necessairy cause of the timing. And I dont say that i basically cannot comprehend the scepticism after all the time.

Hors ligne Scots Grey

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #9 le: 09 juin 2014, 21:54:45 pm »
Been waiting a long time already for promised features/patches.

The fact that this new version seem to be heading the same way as the original is a concern that we may never see the game we all hoped for.

Deadline after deadline seems to pass with little information and when patches are announced but never materialise then it is understandable for people to become sceptical.

I really hope that this game will fulfil its potential but as the days turn to weeks then months my support and hopes starts to disappear as they did with LG. I'm thinking that there is too much broken that as one bug gets squashed it makes others appear. I am not a programmer so I do have total admiration for JMM for undertaking such a venture, (Undertaking may be appropriate). I hope I am so so wrong on my assumption.

As the OP said, bought twice, cannot play once. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

It is pretty to look at though.
« Modifié: 21 juin 2014, 09:44:59 am par Scots Grey »

Hors ligne sandman

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Re : Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #10 le: 10 juin 2014, 08:31:38 am »
Been waiting a long time already for promised features/patches.

Deadline after deadline seems to pass with little information and when patches are announced but never materialise then it is understandable for people to become sceptical.

Long time? Well, thats kinda relative. The features "New UI" and "Brigade/Division" are delayed since 3 months. The newest patch is delayed since 10 days.

As stated before, I also have my doubts and hopes. But talking something to death right before big improvements are announced/promised just isnt a perfect timing.

Dont get me wrong. I agree with everyone becoming more and more sceptical and criticizing things. I d also prefer hard facts instead of silky wishes. But I wouldnt give it up yet.

Why not judge in a couple of weeks. Me myself personally give it even more time.

Hors ligne von_Clausewitz

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #11 le: 12 juin 2014, 00:42:31 am »
Hi guys,

I have been following Histwar since 2006. I have been dreaming about the finished version since, and I was confident enough of the potential that i joined in the development of the game last year, working on the new GUI.

I understand the frustration you experience and I understand the skepticism. Some of you might know programming and know what a Herculean task it is to have an AI manage a whole army with an expectation that it would manage it as well as you would have managed it.

The total war team tried to emulate a little what Histwar does. If any of you were reading what was intended with Rome II, you will remember that they wanted to keep the number of units at 20 but make each unit have multiple sub-units, somewhat like the regiment-battalion structure in Histwar and have the AI manage it and this was abandoned in favor of 40 units all managed by the player himself.

I understand their decision, i would have probably done the same. Expecting the AI to manage a whole army just like a player would is extremely difficult.
Believe me, this game would have been complete and bug free a long time ago if the decision was made to let the player manage manually his whole army, but that is not the spirit the game was designed with.
People don't complain about a total war battle even though the enemy AI is horrible because they manage their own army manually and so do not get frustrated by an AI not doing what they expected.

There are bugs, they are being fixed, there are now less of them. The GUI is being redone along the lines of GUIs used by more popular games, so hopefully that issue will be solved...

The game is not dead, it is progressing, not at the pace you would like, i understand and i apologize for that.

VC

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Hors ligne Dagann

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #12 le: 13 juin 2014, 13:29:12 pm »
   I have been following Histwar since... 2002 ... 12 years(omg, i'm so old :mrgreen:).
I understand how hard it is to work on a so ambitious project with a so tiny team.
The few shortcomings of Histwar prevents the game from becoming the best napoleonic wargame ever made in the video game history. Thats' so frustrating.
I have not bough the game cause of these shortcoming and bugs, but i hope to buy the new version when the 1/1 scale will be implemented.
There is nothing i can say about the the work provided on the game cause i know JM and his team are doing their best... except hiring more developers (but would require more money, of course :roll:).

   However, there is an area which would need improvement : communication.
I'm not talking about the forum where JM himself talks with its community.
I'm talking about attracting players who don't know the game and keeping the community active.
1/ News once a week or at least every 2 weeks would be great. WIP, Q&A, screenshots, videos, historical articles, informations, everything that show the developers are active and would call the community and non-histwar players attention.
The last official news is from Februray!!! Most of the new comers will stop at the website page and will not search through the forum.
And make a blog please. The present blog is french written and  inactive since march.
2/ Make things clearer. Histwar : LG, Histwar : Austerlitz, Histwar : Napoleon. Histwar II ? Oh, it's Hiswar : N. For new comers or someone following the game time to time, it's quite easy to get lost.
Same fo the patches. 03b, 05f/c, RC1, RC2 or  wathever, it's a mess. There should have only 1 version to dl, easy to find at first glance within 3 seconds on the main page of the website.

Yes it would ask more work, but communicatiion is as  important as development, 3d models, programming, etc...

I hope i do not sound too harsh. It's just the feeling from a old follower who was amazed by the Histwar : N preview video made by Levitah40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INziGCbSBdM
Can't wait for the new improvments and the 1/1 scale.

Cheers
« Modifié: 13 juin 2014, 13:52:01 pm par Dagann »

Hors ligne JMM

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #13 le: 13 juin 2014, 13:55:39 pm »
Thank you a lot for your constant support... twelve years... Bravo !!!

It seems the last version checked by the beta test team is very fine.. the best of all the previous version.
I have yet to fix an important issue about the locking of Corps... No sure it is very difficult...
New buildings will be included in the next Relase.

Communication : right... but it is difficult to communicate with a game with some bugs.
A lot of gamers think there a lot of bugs in the game... I don't believe... I think there are yet some (3, 4???) bugs which are in the main loop, giving the feeling the game is buggy a lot...

New patch ASAP...

JMM

Hors ligne Dagann

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Re : Is this game dead?
« Réponse #14 le: 13 juin 2014, 14:14:13 pm »
Ty for your kind answer JM.

I'm glad to hear about these good news and hope you will easily defat this nasty bug. :twisted:
About communication, there is always something to say or to show despite the few bugs. :roll:
Why not the next news about the Histwar schedule, on the website or the blog (sounds more logical) ? About what you are currently working on or solving, the incoming improvements and projects at short/medium/long term.

Of course you are very busy and certainly do not have the time to do this kind of work. I guess someone (or several persons) dedicated to the Histwar communication would be the best solution and would unburden you or your team  from this burden.
« Modifié: 13 juin 2014, 14:20:20 pm par Dagann »