Borodino map update!

[Alfiere]

Good art pics.

Some my little doubts in the pic.
In the historical map , seems to me to see vegetations but perhaps not very woods.(i am not sure)

Because Ney at the left of Davout, that together attack at center-left of russians.
Take a look at frame V     ,Ney and Davout standby near Utitsa woods (left-center russian front).
http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Batlle%20of%20Borodino%20September%207%201812.html

Anyway , i consider this a suicide attack (Ney-Davout).
Also attack of Eugene and Gruchy with cross the river and with good russian force on the right is very risky.
But,Napo....has had its good reasons.

When you upload on depot? It is very interesting to see the map in 3D.
 

[oster1815]

Excuse me , my Friend,

Your pictures give a different and better view ( if the ground was not levelled...)  than the maps 
If you you took pictures of  all the battlefield  it'll be difficult to quibble for minor points .
Are there any remains of the redoubts or fieldworks ?  The battlefield seems to have been seriously protected, too bad Waterloo is not the same

Oster

[Jacquinot]

Excuse me , my Friend,

Your pictures give a different and better view ( if the ground was not levelled...)  than the maps 
If you you took pictures of  all the battlefield  it'll be difficult to quibble for minor points .
Are there any remains of the redoubts or fieldworks ?  The battlefield seems to have been seriously protected, too bad Waterloo is not the same

Oster

In september i try to visit Borodino and take alot of pictures.
Yes some fieldworks was rerbuild in 1970 yer, this photos i take standing on southern lunette(fleche). Bagration fleches was rebuild all, Grand redoubt was rebuild on 25%, and was rebuild one French battery and one Russian battery infront of the fleches.

[Jacquinot]

Good art pics.

Some my little doubts in the pic.
In the historical map , seems to me to see vegetations but perhaps not very woods.(i am not sure)

Because Ney at the left of Davout, that together attack at center-left of russians.
Take a look at frame V     ,Ney and Davout standby near Utitsa woods (left-center russian front).
http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Batlle%20of%20Borodino%20September%207%201812.html

When you upload on depot? It is very interesting to see the map in 3D.
 

1) After 200yers woods area become much bigger, now you can't see all field at Rubo panorama point of view.
2) Order to Ney was to attack between Grand redoubt and Bagration's fleches, in Napoleon's plan at 8.00 Davout should take Russian fieldworks on left flank, but when Ney come to attack Davout soldiers ask him for help to take redoubts and he change target to attack.
3) I upload when i finish deployment.

[Alfiere]

1)Absolutely agree.
2)Ahh....ok.
3)well,we wait.

Hello Jacquinot,great work.

[oster1815]

Hello Jacquinot,
The site ALLWORLDWAR is excellent value for extensive reading

http://www.allworldwars.com/The%20Batlle%20of%20Borodino%20September%207%201812.html

I put it here again for those who missed as it is full of various infos, not only on Borodino.

The paintings of your favourite battle are very interesting -even if probably dramatized-
They show the country less wooded but more rough with crags and deep ravines, much like the maps of the period. I guess it is impossible to do something like this in game maps
Bon Courage, we hope to see it soon
Oster
Ps I'd found another very good Russian site "Reconstitution 8eme demi-Brigade de Ligne" at  " 8eme.eu/fra/club.htm" with lot of pictures about Russian guys playing the French army with an enthusiastic vista

[Alfiere]

Anyway only the Jacquinot photos give a true idea of ground and we have to imagine less vegetation, after 200 years.
We have to wait to see the map in 3D , but i think enough similar to photos also if more smoothed.
(Interpolation of heights Googlearth with right risolution  of 45 mt horizzontal and 90 mt vertical,if i remember well.)

[Jacquinot]

The paintings of your favourite battle are very interesting -even if probably dramatized-
They show the country less wooded but more rough with crags and deep ravines, much like the maps of the period. I guess it is impossible to do something like this in game maps

Yes, on Roubaud's panorama like on Adam's paintings heights looks bigger, ravines deeper and not much woods, especially on Adam's paintings. But i think it's just artistically exaggeration.

[Jacquinot]

1 picture in reality
1 picture in game:

[Jacquinot]

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[Jacquinot]

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[oster1815]

 

But i think it's just artistically exaggeration

Maybe, but mind that in 200 years the ground was probably levelled a lot by natural erosion or man's action....
There were first the burial of thousands of men and horses, peasants searching what they can catch, (or cultivating on naturally fertilized ground  ), then curiosity, collectors, archeologists  -amateurs or not- and probably some heavy circulation   in WWII !
This is why I look seriously at paintings and drawings made on the spot a short time after the events and also memoirs of fighting men or witnesses.
If you have a look at Waterloo's battlefield sites, you will find how it was almost totally remodelled  ( mostly for erection of Wellington's atrocious memory ) - to the point that many features are completely out of significance....This is explained by British historian themselves
One of the best preserved battlesite I know is Gettysburgh, but only because it was protected immediately and benefits  of  regular  cares  ( up to keeping the vegetation as close as possible of the time of battle) so, you can look at the Panorama and find many points in the landscape.
Now, this is not to discourage you, as you did a very good job and much work  for our pleasure of warGaming
Oster

[Jacquinot]

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[oster1815]

Excellent pics from the Histwar Battlefield
Reminds me of the serie of mags "Then and Now" trying to match historical pictures "mostly WWII) in today world.
Oster

[Jacquinot]

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