Auteur Sujet: Borodino map update!  (Lu 101620 fois)

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #45 le: 31 juillet 2011, 19:25:55 pm »
Background to the Patriotic War of 1812
Saltanovka-Ostrovno – Kobrin – Gorodečno – Klâsticy – Smolensk – Polotsk (1)-Valutina mountain-Borodino – Tarutino-Maloyaroslavets-Polotsk (2)-Vyazma-Chashniki – Smalany – Red – Berezina-Prosecution


Russian army Each de Tolly and Bagration fighting retreating when planning to connect in the District of Vitebsk. However, Davout cut Bagration road at Vitebsk and Bagration decided to move to Smolensk. Not knowing about this and retreating from Polotsk, Barclay de Tolly 23 July (13 Church style) reached the Vitebsk and expecting Bagration. The Vitebsk also followed Napoleon with the main forces. Barclay was a choice: either to retreat further to Smolensk, giving without fighting the Russian land or remain in place and as forces detain French promotion until suitable Bagration. Barclay had decided, without a general battle, delay time by fighting, taking advantage of the woodland and rough terrain. This decision contributed to the fragmentation of Napoleon's forces were scattered around the front hull and experienced great difficulties in supply.
1st Russian army rested in Vitebsk, 2 days before French patrols, missed kazač′imi by roadblocks, quite unexpectedly, have been found in 3 km from the city on the road — Vitebsk Beshankovichy (along the left bank of the Daugava River), while the rearguard of the army was expecting the arrival of the enemy on the other side of the Dvina River. To close the road, the Commander of the 1st army Barclay sent a 4th Peh. Corps of count Osterman's Corps-Thick with several regiments of cavalry. According to Yermolov: Nadoben General who was relieved by the forces of the enemy and they would not ustrašili. "
The bulk of the army took a defensive position in Vitebsk, the positions of the Lučesoj River, which flows into the Dvina Vitebsk. The Russian army remained in the rear of the road to Blagoevgrad and Smolensk.
[edit] the course of the battle [edit] 25 iûlâFajl: Battle of Ostrovno 1812 png map.
Map of the rearguard fighting under Vitebsk in 1812. Vanguard of count Osterman's Corps-Thick with had the 4th Infantry Corps, two gusarskih dragunskuû Regiment, brigade and horse artillery company. The battlefield say about 6 thousands of soldiers in the possession of count Osterman's Corps. According to other information, the Russian squad was 9 thousand fighters.
In the vanguard of the life guards Hussar and Nezhin Dragoon regiments came across a French Piquet, attacked and harassed in the direction of the village of Ostrovno (about 25 km west of Vitebsk), where short 8 km before Ostrovno faced major avant-garde French forces under the leadership of Murat, consisting of the 1st Hussar Division (Maj. Bruyères) and 1st kirasirskoj Division (Maj. Saint-Germain). Murat had mounted artillery but lacked infantry.
Broke off the fight, which lasted all day. The French initially successful, the 8th Hussar Regiment broke the 2 Russian Leib-Hussar Squadron and captured in the forest 6 guns of horse artillery, heading for sledding with Hussars at. To stop the French success in the battle of second Osterman introduced Hussar Regiment and troops, blocking the road built at Vitebsk. The left flank of the avant-garde in marshy forest, dig right flank be cloaked Dvina. Russian artillery prostrelivala the way, causing great losses on the enemy konnice sgrudivšejsâ along it.
Due to overcrowding and the lack of infantry Murat could not fully implement the numerical superiority, so he had to do a series of fierce frontal attack. Attacks were Cavalry on the road, where the 2 battalions of Russian infantry were built on both sides of the road in Kara, making infantry vulnerable to the actions of the French artillery. Troops strongly reflected attack, incurring significant losses. Sergey Glinka's "Notes on the 1812 year" says:
"Fiercely boomed an enemy artillery and vyryvala entire series brave the Russian regiments. It was difficult to carry our guns, charges they rasstrelâlis′ the guns have fallen. Ask Earl: "what should I do?" "Nothing, he is responsible, is stand and die!" "The battlefield recall a cruise phrase, later the symbol of the resistance of the Russian soldier, on the other. Podporučik artillery Gp Mešetič passes it [1]:
"This time is was a battalion of infantry from the bushes, a lot of enemy shells poured the cores, whole ranks severely broke from the front; When was placed under Ostermanu-Tolstoy about a loss and loss of life, he, under birch trees standing, tobacco smell, said: "Come and die". "The soldiers of count Osterman's Corps attacked the French directly through the forest, and forest same struck volley. The French could not break through the Russian infantry, commissioned konnicej attack by artillery of the French. When Mûratu came 13th Peh. Del′zona Division of the Corps de Beauharnais, he put her through the forest, bypassing the Russian left-wing. Osterman went to Vitebsk to a new position. The night brought a respite to the 4th Corps of the Russians.

26 July to replace the 4th Corps of count Osterman's Corps were sent to the 3rd Infantry Division and kirasirskaâ Division of Konovnicyna Kav. Corps Uvarova. They took position behind-ravine near the village of Kakuvâčinoj, Osterman night took up a position behind Konovnicyna as his reserve, kirasirskoj Division, has not entered into the case because of the very rough terrain.
Mûratu came to Eugene Bogarnè chassis. On the morning of 26 July, the battle on the narrow road in the forest resumed. While Murat aimed to attack the left flank of the Russians, Russians successfully attacked the left flank of the French, where the scattered battalion Croats and 84 Regiment. The French left flank fled and stood up. Murat led a Polish Ulan, while other French generals were able to stop the fleeing soldiers and return them in battle. The position of the left-wing were restored, the Russians retreated into the forest. On the right flank of the advancing French held off a strong artillery fire and gullies, stesnâvšie French cavalry. Barclay sent to reinforce rearguard Lieutenant Tuchkova 1st with the grenaderskoû Division, it has the same command. How to recognise a French officer [2]: "Many arrows [Russians] had been forced to pay for the expensive way, which we have otvoëvyvali."
The French Corps at about 2 o'clock in the afternoon Napoleon personally, taking a command. He led that around 3 o'clock the French threw Russians and their retreat nearly turned the flight because of disorder in command (in the opinion of General Yermolov).
Notes from a. p. Yermolov, Chief of staff of 1st army
Neither the courage nor the troops of General Konovnicyna fearlessness could not keep them [the French]. Inverted arrows our quickly departed in droves. General Konovnicyn, negoduâ, command of troops took General Tuchkov, didn't care about restoring order, the latter not vibrated in the importance of the circumstances and the only activity not provided. I made them a view of the need to withdraw from the confusion and draw to the device. by the evening the French approached the Vitebsk, but tired of battle stopped for respite and intelligence came to forest road to the operating room.
[edit] 27 July
Infantry Gets an attack of cavalry in battle in Vitebsk. Apparently refers to the episode on 27 July, when surrounded by a group of French shooters otbivalas′ from Russian Ulan. Figure of the 19th century After a departure regiments, Barclay took all troops on Vitebsk in a single place and destroyed a message with the right bank of the Daugava River. His intention was to give battle to the French, delay their progress and connect with the 2nd army Bagration. 1st army took up positions across the River Lučesoj, the upiraâs′ the right flank in the Dvina and closing the forest on the left flank. However, in the early morning of 27 July Each rushed into the camp from the courier Bagration informing it that the moves to Smolensk. The same prisoners informed the Russians of Napoleon, and this meant the 150th. the French against the 75th. the Russians. On the night of 26 to 27 July, the Russian army peremenila position, moving from the banks of the Lučesy the road on the Babinoviči, that is prepared to sail, although continued to create the impression of preparations for the battle.
27 July, the rear led Graf Pahlen with fresh forces: 3-4 thousand infantry, 4 thousand cavalry and 40 guns. Pahlen took up a position in 8 km from Vitebsk outside the village of Dobrejka, having in the rear of the Lučesu River. The rearguard Palena fought with 5 o'clock in the morning and up to 3 hours of the day and then retreated over Lučesu, which were shortly before the 1st army position Each. Clausewitz, personally present at Palena, attributed to sluggish French onslaught weak Russian counter Napoleon's desire to thoroughly prepare for the battle, the Emperor on the following day. According to the memoirs of count One Napoleon even ordered 11 a.m. stop attacks at Palena, in order to be able to inspect the upcoming battle, as well as tighten the stragglers.
Napoleon wrote to Mûratu: "tomorrow at 5 am Sun Austerlica!" on the eve of the French with the heights observed detailed Russian army on the banks of the Lučesy. After the change of position, according to General Yermolov, did not have the ability to see the main army, but continued to believe in the intention of the Russian claim Vitebsk.
But in 1 hour of the day on 27 July, the 1st army Each quietly moved three columns in Smolensk, about what the French have not guessed. Woodland and counter the Palena concealed the departure of the Russian army, Napoleon found only on the morning of 28 July.
[edit] after bitvyFrancuzy couldn't understand where left the Russian army. Pursue her they could not. General Belliard to Napoleon's cavalry replied simply: "6 days of March, and the Cavalry to disappear." after meeting with military commanders, Napoleon decided to stop further promotion in Russia.

After the battle the French couldn't understand where left the Russian army. Pursue her they could not. General Belliard to Napoleon's cavalry replied simply: "6 days of March, and the Cavalry to disappear." after meeting with military commanders, Napoleon decided to stop further promotion in Russia.
He returned on 28 July at the headquarters in Vitebsk, Napoleon left his Sabre on the map with the words [3]:
Here I will! Here I have to look around, give the rest of the army and to Poland. The campaign of 1812, 1813, to complete the rest of the campaign. "Russian army reunited in Smolensk on August 3, soon forced Napoleon to change plans.
In a three-day battle in Vitebsk with the Russian side was killed, Maj.-Gen. failure of Okulov, learning about 3764 [4].
French losses are usually evaluated as equal Russian (3704, of which 300 prisoners), Brigadier General Roussel was killed.
The memory of this battle, immortalized in the Obelisk at the village of Ostrovno. The inscription on it reads:
"Here, on the battlefield, under the
Ostrovno, Kukovâčino,
Dobrejkoj 13-14/25-26/
July 1812, 9 thousand
a detachment of Russian troops under the command
also the generals
Count Osterman's Corps-Tolstoy and
Konovnicyna Stoicho der
would defend against 20-thousand-
Noah Napoleon's army than to
pečili free SOE-
dinenie 1st and 2nd Russian armies
the Smolensk "
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #46 le: 31 juillet 2011, 19:38:31 pm »
I found Ostrovno on map, yes now it in Belorussia, but underwater!!!!!! :shock:

Damn, Ostrovno it's name of lake :D. But where the village?

Now on map only lake, village destroyed i think.
« Modifié: 31 juillet 2011, 19:45:51 pm par Jacquinot »
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #47 le: 01 août 2011, 01:56:16 am »
Здравствуйте Jaquinot. Your Borodino map looks great! wikipedia says Ostrovno battle took place 30 Km west of Vitebsk.

Look here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ostrovno
There's a lot a information about where the battle occurred but it's not really accurate.

Also here :  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Бой_под_Островно

and here : http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Островно_(Бешенковичский_район)

on the last link, you can find the coordinate and put them in google earth. But you can surely find more information since you're russian ( I understand almost nothing :? )

Ostrovno Coordinates :  55°08′00″  29°53′00
(About 30km west of Vitebsk like wikipedia said.  :D )

Sorry if you already had a look at these link  :mrgreen:
Good luck!



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Re : Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #48 le: 01 août 2011, 11:53:51 am »
Thanks Soldat Pozine !

Jacquinot is Russian, but I'm French so we communicate in English :shock:   logic.....
All infos welcome, but Wikipedia russian translated par Bing (?) in English give amazing results, then if you translate again this english version in French it makes something like a "schtroumpff "language with words in russian, other in english and other  :?:
If you're a french-speaking  Quebecois you can find on googlebooks a french translation of  Boutourlin on the topic along with many books free to read on the period  :)

Quel temps fait-il dans la Belle Province où quelques ancêtres collateraux ont émigré vers 1670 (prés de TroisRiviéres) ;)
Oster
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Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #49 le: 01 août 2011, 12:18:25 pm »
Hi Jacquinot,

Spasiba for your research ;)

I'd found this picture of Moscow Elite Hussars and another which follow.
Do you think we ask modders to design frogmen for underwater battle :mrgreen:
Also, I just discovered the "interprete"  BING is also giving maps with cyrillic names translated...but only on a larger scale.
Oster
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Re : Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #50 le: 01 août 2011, 12:29:55 pm »
Jacquinot,
Here the map from Bing.
So the large town with bridge on sketchmap is ViTEBSK ?
Is BieloRussian a different language/spelling of Russian?
oster
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Re : Re : Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #51 le: 01 août 2011, 17:14:55 pm »
Jacquinot,
Here the map from Bing.
So the large town with bridge on sketchmap is ViTEBSK ?
Is BieloRussian a different language/spelling of Russian?
oster

Yes it is Vitebsk, your map screenshot looks like map in wikipedia.
Belorussian it is variant of Russian, you can understand if you know Russian.
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #52 le: 01 août 2011, 17:21:31 pm »
Hi Jacquinot,

Spasiba for your research ;)

I'd found this picture of Moscow Elite Hussars and another which follow.
Do you think we ask modders to design frogmen for underwater battle :mrgreen:
Also, I just discovered the "interprete"  BING is also giving maps with cyrillic names translated...but only on a larger scale.
Oster


What is Moscow Elite Hussars?

Regular Hussars regiments (guards and army):

Life guards Hussar (1798)
Alexandria (1783)
Akhtyrsky (founded in 1765)
Belarusian (founded in 1803)
Grodno (created in 1806).
Elisavetgradskij (created in 1764.)
Izyum (founded in 1765)
Irkutsk (created in 1812.)
Lubnu (established in 1807.)
Mariupol (1783)
Ol′viopol′skij (1783)
Pavlograd (1783)
Sumy (founded in 1765)
Hussars militia regiments:
Moscow Hussar Regiment create by count p. i. Saltykov
(was created in 1812 for Earl p. i. Saltykova, then together with Irkutsk dragunskim Regiment became part of the Irkutsk Hussars Regiment)

Hussars shelves Russian-German Legion
(two hussars Regiment, which was established in 1812 from Russian Germans-colonists and defectors from the German part of Napoleon's Army)
« Modifié: 01 août 2011, 17:24:43 pm par Jacquinot »
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re : Re : Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #53 le: 01 août 2011, 17:22:21 pm »
Thanks Soldat Pozine !

Jacquinot is Russian, but I'm French so we communicate in English :shock:   logic.....
All infos welcome, but Wikipedia russian translated par Bing (?) in English give amazing results, then if you translate again this english version in French it makes something like a "schtroumpff "language with words in russian, other in english and other  :?:
If you're a french-speaking  Quebecois you can find on googlebooks a french translation of  Boutourlin on the topic along with many books free to read on the period  :)

Quel temps fait-il dans la Belle Province où quelques ancêtres collateraux ont émigré vers 1670 (prés de TroisRiviéres) ;)
Oster

I would speak russian if I could  :mrgreen: ( I'm still learning ) But anyways, looks like jaquinot is about to remake every map  :shock:

Boutourlin? Connais pas  :mrgreen: Jconnais presque rien de l'époque napoléonienne. Au québec on nous parle pas de ça dans nos classes d'histoire  :? On nous parle seulement des british.

Aujourd'hui il fait un temps superbe  :D ( Et il annonce des averses pour cet aprem.  :x )

PS. C'est pas un forum anglais ici?  :mrgreen:
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Re : Re : Re : Ostrowno map update!
« Réponse #54 le: 01 août 2011, 17:34:05 pm »
I would speak russian if I could  :mrgreen: ( I'm still learning ) But anyways, looks like jaquinot is about to remake every map  :shock:

Boutourlin?
 

No, i only Borodino fan :D
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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Re :Moskow hussars
« Réponse #55 le: 01 août 2011, 18:35:51 pm »
Just found that while searching for Ostrowno , a link sent me to a miniatures wargame site. The title was "Moskow Elite Hussars", so I sent you as a postcard/reward for hardwork :p - I decline responsability for identification!
I don't know if the map comes from wikipedia - Probably Wiki and Bling work together.
It was hard to guess Vitebsk as it looks like BUMEBCK....for me :|
Anyway, they are useful, even if the "Interpret" looks like someone who drink vodka for breakfast. ( just try to write something in russian, then ask it translation in english or french, then ask him to translate again in russian....the result can be amazing  :shock:)
About 40 years ago, I tried to learn some Russian , I remember very few with almost no alphabet  ( Ia lioubliou vodka, spasiba tovaritch...)
Oster
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Re : Pozine
« Réponse #56 le: 01 août 2011, 18:58:01 pm »
Yes, we're in the "international zone",  mostly English speaking as the "lingua franca" for most wargamers.
It was just a little welcome for a Quebecois fellow!

 
Citer
presque rien de l'époque napoléonienne. Au québec on nous parle pas de ça dans nos classes d'histoire ...
Ben, en France on en parle aussi de moins en moins ! regarde les messages du mois dernier dans la Taverne des Français :twisted:

Histwar is a very good  place to enjoy wargaming and learn some history about this period :!: You can also find some useful references to books in the library ( watch under TOF or Reinel in Membres)
Oster
Ps Boutourlin is an authority about The Great Patriotic War of 1812 ( Russian point of view) but also respected in Western Europe - and , I guess, a favorite  reading for Jacquinot ;)
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Re : Borodino map update!
« Réponse #57 le: 01 août 2011, 19:39:00 pm »
Ici vous êtes sur le forum international et pas sur sa partie anglaise.. ;)
Les langues peuvent donc y être diverses, pourvu que l'on se comprenne...
Pour ce qui concerne les Tavernes françaises, ses braves sont au repos après des semaines de farouches combats... 8)


Here you are on the international forum and not on its English part.. ;)
The languages can thus be there diverse, if we understand...
As regards the French Taverns, its braves are for the rest after weeks of wild fights... 8)

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Re : Re : Pozine
« Réponse #58 le: 01 août 2011, 21:02:14 pm »
Ps Boutourlin is an authority about The Great Patriotic War of 1812 ( Russian point of view) but also respected in Western Europe - and , I guess, a favorite  reading for Jacquinot ;)

I like to read Tarle, he more Bonapartist. :smile:
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

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New Borodino map with old deployment.
« Réponse #59 le: 01 août 2011, 22:56:13 pm »
New Borodino map with old deployment.

Now old deployment looks not much correct on new map, what do you think?

1) Napoleon can't see action on Fleches from his command post.
2) Not enough space for French Grand battery(102 guns).
3) Wrong deployment for Companas and Dessaix divisions.

Whats more not correct?
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."