Auteur Sujet: Formation for Defence Line  (Lu 10982 fois)

Hors ligne Marquês de Alorna

  • Chef de Bataillon
  • **
  • Messages: 307
Re : Re : Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #45 le: 16 août 2010, 02:48:55 am »
With the "Defend current position" order that I propose, the regiments are ordered to keep their current deployment positions (whatever they are), eventually changing the formation of the first rank to line (if not already in line).
Or do you think that this would be micromanagement?  :?

Hors ligne Hook

  • Chevalier d'HistWar
  • Modérateurs
  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1752
Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #46 le: 16 août 2010, 06:22:53 am »
Or do you think that this would be micromanagement?  :?

Micromanaging a defensive position is the only micromanagement that I find proper.  Wellington, for example, had plenty of time to place troops where he wanted them.

JMM has already said he's going to do some work on the defensive line so that you will be able to specify whether it should be in depth or in a more shall deployment that follows the line you draw more closely.

In broken ground, troops do tend to defend in depth, sometimes to an extreme extent, as they find the best ground for their defense.  Unfortunately, this usually means they don't have supporting units on their flanks, but sometimes the defensive ground helps make up for it.  On flat ground troops will deploy in line with the artillery about 500 meters ahead.  If you have a ridge line, troops are pretty good about deploying along the ridge from what I've seen in the past.

Hook

Hors ligne Hook

  • Chevalier d'HistWar
  • Modérateurs
  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1752
Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #47 le: 16 août 2010, 06:29:27 am »
Most of the time, those positions are well ahead of the drawn line, so if you put the line to be defended precisely on top of the line in the deploy order, the regiments will probably rush forward, risking to be caught during movement. It is very common for the player to be forced to cancel and redraw the Defend order several times before the AI selects the intended position.

A couple of points. 

First, if you give a defend order in the initial deployment phase before the clock starts so that the troops jump to their position, the icons are displayed ahead of where the unit actually is.  This may have been fixed in recent patches, however. 

Second, you cannot give a defend order too close to enemy troops for the reason you describe above.  If your infantry has already gotten within 500 meters of the enemy, they'll attack instead of going to defensive line.  An unfortunate side effect is if the infantry wants to deploy ahead of your line and this takes them within that 500 meter distance.

Hook

Hors ligne Marquês de Alorna

  • Chef de Bataillon
  • **
  • Messages: 307
Re : Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #48 le: 16 août 2010, 14:41:16 pm »
Second, you cannot give a defend order too close to enemy troops for the reason you describe above.  If your infantry has already gotten within 500 meters of the enemy, they'll attack instead of going to defensive line.  An unfortunate side effect is if the infantry wants to deploy ahead of your line and this takes them within that 500 meter distance.
Yes, that's precisely why I proposed that order to say "just keep your relative positions in the corps, whatever the cost - don't attack."
I fully agree that to prepare well a defensive position, you cannot and should not do it too close to the enemy.


Hors ligne Hook

  • Chevalier d'HistWar
  • Modérateurs
  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1752
Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #49 le: 16 août 2010, 14:48:53 pm »
Yes, that's precisely why I proposed that order to say "just keep your relative positions in the corps, whatever the cost - don't attack."
I fully agree that to prepare well a defensive position, you cannot and should not do it too close to the enemy.

I think it's intentional that you can't rush the enemy and form a defensive line right in front of him.  I suggest never trying to form a defensive line within 1000 meters of the enemy.  You might get away with it, especially if the enemy is in defensive line as well, but if you get within 500 meters you have no chance at all.

Hook

Hors ligne AJ

  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1845
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley
    • Napoleonic Battle Corp
Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #50 le: 16 août 2010, 16:03:06 pm »
Citer
I think it's intentional that you can't rush the enemy and form a defensive line right in front of him.  I suggest never trying to form a defensive line within 1000 meters of the enemy.  You might get away with it, especially if the enemy is in defensive line as well, but if you get within 500 meters you have no chance at all.

Hook

This situation is where I might give the "Deploy in Checkerboard", with the line drawn at least 1K behind it's current position. Followed by my "defend on line' when they arrive at the new line. it is better to retire using "Deploy" as the units will support each other whilst retiring.

Hors ligne Hook

  • Chevalier d'HistWar
  • Modérateurs
  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1752
Re : Formation for Defence Line
« Réponse #51 le: 16 août 2010, 22:56:08 pm »
I never had any luck trying to disengage a corps from battle, although with the current version of the game it might work better.  Once I've committed a corps to battle, they stay there until they win or are forced back.  If necessary, I might send another corps to their aid.  The only time since the very beginning that I've tried to disengage a corps was when there was another corps linked in support, and the lead corps was in pretty bad shape.  This can work, and the corps actually got out with a few regiments intact, and this with the current version of the game.

While the game is easy to play, you do have to think ahead a lot, similar to chess, and be ready and prepared to either fix any bad decisions or exploit any gains. 

Regarding things like trying to rush the enemy and form a defensive line right in front of him, most of the time, if you can't get away with something in the game, you probably wouldn't be able to get away with it on a real battlefield.  HWLG is a good simulation.  However, if someone doesn't understand what's going on, please do ask.  Napoleonic warfare is very simple on the surface, but has lots of depth, so we expect some questions.

Hook

Hors ligne AJ

  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1845
  • Sir Arthur Wellesley
    • Napoleonic Battle Corp
Re : Formation for Defense Line
« Réponse #52 le: 17 août 2010, 03:21:43 am »
Citer
I never had any luck trying to disengage a corps from battle, although with the current version of the game it might work better
.

Hook is right its a tricky business and isn't for the faint hearted. It will leave behind any units engaged, they act as a kind of rearguard. I've tried it a few times with varying results

Hors ligne Hook

  • Chevalier d'HistWar
  • Modérateurs
  • Général de Brigade
  • ****
  • Messages: 1752
Re : Formation for Defense Line
« Réponse #53 le: 17 août 2010, 15:14:15 pm »
Hook is right its a tricky business and isn't for the faint hearted. It will leave behind any units engaged, they act as a kind of rearguard. I've tried it a few times with varying results

I think about the only time you can successfully disengage is if the corps is already in retreat.  Many times these retreating corps will go back into battle after a bit.  If you catch them before they return to battle, you may have  good chance to get them back to a different position.

AJ is right, a few units still engaged make an excellent rearguard.

I haven't done much with trying to disengage a corps since before we had the retreating corps AI, which is probably why I never had any luck with disengaging.

Hook