Auteur Sujet: French Revolution and Napoleon emperor  (Lu 5491 fois)

Hors ligne Alfiere

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French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« le: 09 juillet 2010, 12:35:00 pm »
Now after explanations for my point of view Napoleon must be to have a title to treat how equal with other nation in that period and also to nomine other ...
but it is how it does is genial , it do it how man of french revolution.
It is important analyze the coronation ceremony , there are 3 proceedings that are symbolically interesting.
1)Pope (God)with in his hands the crown. (old style)
2)Napoleon take crown and crowned himself (new style of french revolotion, for the principle of egalitè the french man no longer need certification from the high but if people agree can rise by only if it has the merits)
3)Sentence "God gave me it and .........." (the new method have ufficial sacredness of the old method)
What do you think of my point of view?is plausible or are off track?
« Modifié: 09 juillet 2010, 13:32:02 pm par Alfiere »
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Hors ligne thilio

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #1 le: 09 juillet 2010, 20:48:21 pm »

2)Napoleon take crown and crowned himself (new style of french revolotion, for the principle of egalitè the french man no longer need certification from the high but if people agree can rise by only if it has the merits)


Totally agree on this point. In line with the noblish title given to the Marshals only because of their merits and not by birth.

Hors ligne Marquês de Alorna

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #2 le: 14 juillet 2010, 00:24:25 am »
Well, the truth is that the coronation ceremony has disappointed a lot of supporters of the French Revolution.
Anyway, the French Revolution was in the end victorious, and although Napoleon was defeated, his enemies would very soon find out that history cannot go back. A lot of absolute monarchies would soon surrender to the constitutional form of government. For example in Portugal, a very advanced Constitution came already in 1820, only 5 years after the ultimate defeat of Napoleon. 

Regards,
António

Hors ligne thilio

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #3 le: 14 juillet 2010, 10:20:17 am »
Well, the truth is that the coronation ceremony has disappointed a lot of supporters of the French Revolution.

Yes, of course there was some opposition to Napoléon not only on the royalist side but also on the republican side.
But another reason to explain the global support by the French people to the coronation of Napoléon as an emperor is the memory of the bloody last years of the revolution.
Furthermore, the lack of strong decisional power of the Directoire and in part of the Consulat lead to accept the coronation to obtain stability and to rebuilt a strong country.

Hors ligne quartermaster

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #4 le: 16 juillet 2010, 23:23:31 pm »
You may just begin to understand why the British government has always referred to General Bonaparte considering his title to have no legitimacy.

This continues into modern times where many dictators who seized power in a coup continue to be referred to as "General X", "Colonel Y" etc.

Hors ligne Jacquinot

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #5 le: 03 février 2011, 19:34:39 pm »
Now after explanations for my point of view Napoleon must be to have a title to treat how equal with other nation in that period and also to nomine other ...
but it is how it does is genial , it do it how man of french revolution.
It is important analyze the coronation ceremony , there are 3 proceedings that are symbolically interesting.
1)Pope (God)with in his hands the crown. (old style)
2)Napoleon take crown and crowned himself (new style of french revolotion, for the principle of egalitè the french man no longer need certification from the high but if people agree can rise by only if it has the merits)
3)Sentence "God gave me it and .........." (the new method have ufficial sacredness of the old method)
What do you think of my point of view?is plausible or are off track?


Napoleon hate revolution and Jacobins much more than monarchist.
Glinka F.N. The memoirs of  Borodino battle. - "...screams of commanders and howls of despair on ten different languages was drowned by cannonade and drumbeat..."

Hors ligne oster1815

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #6 le: 18 juillet 2011, 19:53:18 pm »
Major,

I think in this period of 14 july and the controversy around it is not misplaced to return to the Revolution and the origins of Empire.
So much was said about Napoleon that it seems difficult to add something but everybody may have his own opinion.
I very agree with you Major, also with Marques de Alorna, maybe too optimistic for the end result...
Otherwise, it seems clear that Napo wasn't a man of the Révolution. He seized opportunity but should as well be a Sultan ( letters from StHelene ) or any man of power. The Coronation was seen by many as a return to old order as well as the return of religion (freedom of thinking was bluffy as Catholisism overpowered all other ) so badly resented in the Restauration era. In the Hundred Days the people was much more divided than the propaganda (and historians followers...) allegedly reports and civil war had probably erupted if it had lasted longer (conscription and taxes , watch number of deserters, traitors, countries in open rebellion...)

Last, a reply for Thillio about the Marshals : If many were without doubt promotted by military merit, almost an equal number was only listed for political reasons or diplomacy , even for linking to ancient nobility....
If you can find it, watch "Napoleon's Marshalls" = a deep study by David Chandler and an international bunch of scholars and military historians amongst who I was tasked to write a biography of Pérignon :The Unknown Marshall. Typical of the political promotion. The book doesn't exist in French, but English, Italian (and maybe spanish ) editions  are probably still printed.

I  hope that reopening this link will not annoy too many , But this 14 July made me rather angry...

Caporal Oster ( and a Happy Birthday so late ,Major :D
Si tu veux la PAIX, connais la GUERRE  !  Gaston Bouthoul

Hors ligne thilio

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #7 le: 18 juillet 2011, 20:54:39 pm »
Last, a reply for Thillio about the Marshals : If many were without doubt promotted by military merit, almost an equal number was only listed for political reasons or diplomacy , even for linking to ancient nobility....
If you can find it, watch "Napoleon's Marshalls" = a deep study by David Chandler and an international bunch of scholars and military historians amongst who I was tasked to write a biography of Pérignon :The Unknown Marshall. Typical of the political promotion. The book doesn't exist in French, but English, Italian (and maybe spanish ) editions  are probably still printed.

I agree, in the first nomination of Marshals, a large number were promoted for political reasons.
But after that, a lot of field officers received a nobility title (peerage) for their military merits.
I will try to find this book in English  ;)
« Modifié: 18 juillet 2011, 21:05:04 pm par thilio »

Hors ligne oster1815

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #8 le: 26 juillet 2011, 19:14:19 pm »
Citer
I agree, in the first nomination of Marshals, a large number were promoted for political reasons.
But after that, a lot of field officers received a nobility title (peerage) for their military merits.
I will try to find this book in English   

Sorry for replying late, I missed your message.... :oops:
If you still  have a good documentation, this book will probably not teach you much more...The main interest is to display all Marshals together with a global point-of-view from David Chandler, all marshalls being treated by different writers from various origins. Also index, bibliography etc... can be useful, but specially for beginners !
But even with about  600 pages, it is far from being an epitome for individuals like Ney or Murat, if good enough for Sérurier or Pérignon ;)
Ref. are : Napoleon's Marshals edited by David Chandler- Published in the  USA by McMillan and by Orion group UK, 1987
Oster
Si tu veux la PAIX, connais la GUERRE  !  Gaston Bouthoul

Hors ligne thilio

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #9 le: 28 juillet 2011, 19:01:08 pm »
Ref. are : Napoleon's Marshals edited by David Chandler- Published in the  USA by McMillan and by Orion group UK, 1987

Thanks, there isn't a lot of shop in France where we can buy books about history written in English  :(
To date i've only found books on WWII...

Hors ligne oster1815

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #10 le: 28 juillet 2011, 19:28:39 pm »
Really, I think you'ld try to have a look at the book on a free source before buying.
I think US or UK  .UNI net may provide it in free reading. Also, I just discovered that google books offer a free (lawful) service to read some books- They have a lot about Napoleonics ;)
Otherwise,  Amazon  is probably  good to start searching in English. But I don't know if it is worth the price.
20 years  is a long time in today business policy...
Good Luck
Oster
Ps : Try World Cat.org identities /Ostermann Georges (under Pérignon-the Unkown Marshall ) they locate libraries and lend inter uni. or photocopy sometimes if you have connection with edu. world....

Si tu veux la PAIX, connais la GUERRE  !  Gaston Bouthoul

Hors ligne thilio

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #11 le: 28 juillet 2011, 19:59:01 pm »
After some quick search on internet, it's easy to find the reference on several links but not to have access to the content  :cry:  

Hors ligne oster1815

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Re : French Revolution and Napoleon emperor
« Réponse #12 le: 28 juillet 2011, 20:05:06 pm »
Sorry, I have no other idea...
Since David Chandler died I'd no links with publishers and they were not kind people . I just got one sample of 1st ed. and none of the followers or Italian ed.
Maybe you'll have a chance with second hand bookstores
Oster
Si tu veux la PAIX, connais la GUERRE  !  Gaston Bouthoul