Auteur Sujet: Strategic retreat  (Lu 3763 fois)

Hors ligne AJ

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Strategic retreat
« le: 19 janvier 2010, 03:38:00 am »
Having spent many wonderful hours practicing my skills on demo1, quirky as it is,  I have a request for the future.  Would it be possible to have a Corps Commander Order  "RETREAT ON DIVERSION".  The primary purpose for this order would be to lure an over zealous enemy Corps into a trap.  This is somewhat of a "Diversionary Tactic" and would simulate the historical use of feigning a disorderly retreat as a means of luring the enemy into pursuit only to be caught in a pincer or flank attack by well hidden units.

If it is not possible to incorporate this, has anyone tried to simulate this tactic using the current orders available?  I am going to try it tomorrow, I'll let you know how it works. In the meantime I would appreciate your thoughts.

Hors ligne Hook

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Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #1 le: 19 janvier 2010, 04:10:12 am »
If you order a Defend on Line to a position behind your current one, it will look like a disorderly retreat. 

I don't know what happens if you order a Deploy on Line to a position in the rear.  Has anyone tried this?  Do the troops march backwards like they do when the corps is retreating?

Hook

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Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #2 le: 19 janvier 2010, 04:29:10 am »
Interesting! and you could detach a Light Cavalry unit to put up a pretense of a fight.

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Re : Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #3 le: 19 janvier 2010, 11:34:25 am »
I don't know what happens if you order a Deploy on Line to a position in the rear.  Has anyone tried this?  Do the troops march backwards like they do when the corps is retreating?

I tried this but my corp never been able to disengage because of ennemy pressure and finally it was disbanded.

Citer
disorderly retreat as a means of luring the enemy into pursuit only to be caught in a pincer or flank attack by well hidden units

I think this tactic can run with small units (especially when facing cavalry which is prompt to pursue) like small rear or advance-guards but is very hard to realize with armies on a battlefield because a general have to take care of the liaison wiht other corps and in particular his corps flanks. So, he will surely launch his cavalry if he has some but launch his entire corp without checking the situation it is less sure.

The aim of a diversion is to lure the ennemy on the real point of attack and to try and force him to send reinforcements in a wrong direction and doing this weakening the real point you want to attack. But trying to caught a corps in a pincer by doing a diversion the way you want may lead in final to lure nobody else than you. Think that the simplest plans are the best : easy to execute and easy to settle in case of  developments you have not expected. Do not forget that the aim of a plan is to break enemy army morally (by destroying his plan) and physically (by destroying is force).

“Jamais d’aultres armes nous prendront, que celles que nous élisons ; et nous disons pour réconfort, nous voulons la liberté ou la mort !”

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Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #4 le: 19 janvier 2010, 15:46:09 pm »
I used the "march to" Command and it seems to work ok, the AI was not aggresive enough to follow up the "retreat".......then re-form in the rear with a defend or whatever order you want in the new position.
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Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #5 le: 20 janvier 2010, 02:20:14 am »
OK.  It does work.  The trick is to stay in contact whilst retreating.  Incidentally and with great respect,  Conscripts, perceiving victory, often gave chase without orders, whereas more disciplined units would stand there ground.  So a whole Corps may not be deceived but a good proportion can be.  The Grand A! obviously agrees with me, because it fell into the trap.  Here's how.

I opened the Tutorial  in "Commander in Chief" mode. For the purposes of the exercise I ignored all other Corps except "Von Senitzet"

I ordered Pereira to march to the village of  Rinetz.
Then De Giedroyc was ordered "On Diversion" 1800m west of Stabloss, his line north to south.
As Von Senitzet made his first contact with De Giedroyc, I ordered his Corps to retire to a line of defense 1200m east of Haldacht.
Von Senitzet attempted to stay in contact with the retreating Corps and as his left flank  presented to Pereira, I ordered Periera's Corps to Deploy (refusing the left) on the vulnerable left rear of Von Senitzet.

It proved to be a classic "Hammer and Anvil". De Giedroyc had by now deployed in a solid defensive line and Von Senitzet had nowhere left to run.

I don't know if this was a fluke, so I will try to repeat it several times.

Hors ligne AJ

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Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #6 le: 20 janvier 2010, 21:14:33 pm »
I've repeated the maneuver  with the same result.  The trapped Corps surrenders on mass.

Hors ligne Count von Csollich

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Re : Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #7 le: 20 janvier 2010, 21:41:20 pm »
I've repeated the maneuver  with the same result.  The trapped Corps surrenders on mass.
That's why you should keep a tactical reserve to hold the enemy at bay until the hard-pressed corps has retreated from danger...like a reserve cavalry to stop the enemy cav from taking your routing units prisoner...at the right moment send them with both a deployment and a slightly delayed retreat order (if you play with grog-settings) and wait what happens...a second corps in liason with the first (the one that is in trouble) also would help because he would carry out the order when the first on fails in achieving its goal...sort of a buffer...
I know it's not really helpful...just felt the need to be "wise"   - sorry  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Hors ligne Gaston45

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Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #8 le: 21 janvier 2010, 02:08:59 am »
More like a Tactical retreat than strategic, but impressive all the same.
I wonder how it would go in a multi player battle.

One can imagine the trap being sprung and a corps surrendering, CiC sends a squad of hangmen to the corps commanders position.  :lol:

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Re : Re : Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #9 le: 21 janvier 2010, 15:25:58 pm »
a second corps in liason with the first (the one that is in trouble) also would help because he would carry out the order when the first on fails in achieving its goal...sort of a buffer...

Liaison order diserves to be studied because it can offer intersting and powerful options.
“Jamais d’aultres armes nous prendront, que celles que nous élisons ; et nous disons pour réconfort, nous voulons la liberté ou la mort !”

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Re : Re : Re : Re : Strategic retreat
« Réponse #10 le: 21 janvier 2010, 19:35:20 pm »
Liaison order diserves to be studied because it can offer intersting and powerful options.
I think the major problem is that the corps in liaison doesn't take over the task of the first one too early...It happened to me quite often especially with a cavalry corps in support that the liaison corps didn't give the main/first attack enough time to develop...but it is my experience that You have to give support orders if you really want a corps to have success with an attack on an enemy strongpoint...and you have to have lots of patience...It might take three or four retreats, halt for artillery preparation and the again deployment in sequence to finally achieve your goal... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
« Modifié: 21 janvier 2010, 23:58:08 pm par Count von Csollich »
"parcere subiectis et debellare superbos", Vergil