Is this still in development?

[Mooncabbage]

Well if it's going to be a "First Person Command Game" I don't see why it can't be first person WASD to move around on your horsey, plus telescope, and your aides :P

[rbbane]

Have read all the posts on "camera control" and appreciate all the main points of view.
So, my "two peneth".

Until HWLG I have played TW games, almost exclusively.  And I agree that they have deteriorated in gameplay somewhat, taking a real nosedive with Empire.
But what I have always liked, and have always felt totally at home with, has been the TW camera controls.

If we are hoping to lure even a few of the TW fans over to HWLG then it would seem to make sense to me to give them part of the UI, at least, that they, to some extent, are used to.

Although I am getting used to the HWLG controls, I for one, would have felt more at home if it's camera controls had felt more "mainstream".

[Mooncabbage]

I played a bit of NTW2 last night, and I feel I should point out how well the mouse edge strafing actually works. Sounds dumb, works great.

[JMM]

I work with this virtual joystick since 10 years and I find it is very precise for controlling the camera movement.
As you know, I work with a "light" configuration (around 15 to 25 fps) and it's easy to control the camera.
I just tried HW:LG on my other PC (45 to 50 fps..) after releasing the first Demo and I didn't like this system because it's hard to get a precise control.

In the demo II, the curseur is now controled by the FPS. So, the it is less nervous.  I hope you'll like this cursor.
That said, it's possible to add an option to active an other system.

JMM

[Mooncabbage]

If you work with a system for 10 years you are sure to become used to it And really it's what you're used to. Most people are not at all used to this joystick type camera, and while it works, I wouldn't say it was especially precise, I sometimes find it frustrating that the camera often seems to skip past were I want it to. Also the point about not being able to move the camera and click at the same time is an important one.

However just as TW allows for a few different camera systems I don't see why LG can't. Since the system is already in place it seems silly to ditch it.

[Hook]

I sometimes find it frustrating that the camera often seems to skip past were I want it to.

Press the V key to toggle "smooth scrolling", or whatever it's called in the game.  When it's turned off, the camera won't skip past where you want it.  The "inertia" needs to be adjusted for that setting.

JMM has already said he can add different camera controls, so you can back off the high pressure sales presentation now.

Hook

[Mooncabbage]

Lol I already said that it would be silly to ditch the old system, maybes you should read more carefully what I have said :P

I was simply explaining that if you use something long enough it's bound to become second nature. Hence why FPS games all use WASD keys and the same sort of controls... people have plugged hundreds of hours into them already.

[Hook]

Then I'll put it another way.

I've got about the same amount of time in the various Sims camera controls as you do in the TW series, so they're what I'm used to.  But it would never, ever occur to me to have the unmitigated chutzpah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chutzpah) to demand, in post after post after post, that the game make major changes to accommodate me, especially under the guise of making it better for some group that isn't even the target market.  Especially since I've got enough experience in enough other games and game genres to know that every game will have different controls, even those made by a single franchise, where the controls will change over time. 

What I might do is make a few simple suggestions, once, that might make the controls a bit more natural for everyone, not just for me or for some sub-group that I belong to.  These changes will not be intended to change the camera controls to match anything I'm already used to, but to make small tweaks that everyone should find helpful, no matter what they've been playing lately.  If none of my suggestions are used, that's fine with me. 

I also realize that until I've got a LOT of time in the game, I'm not going to know why some design decisions were made, and maybe not even then.  I've got a good idea why JMM has things set up the way he does, whether I agree with them or not.  The control design was not a decision made in haste or in a vacuum.

JMM has already agreed to give people some control options, so the matter is pretty much settled.  Eventually you can have the controls you're used to, and I can have the ones I prefer, and I guarantee they'll be different.  There's an old rule in sales:  when the customer has agreed to buy, stop selling.

Hook

[Mooncabbage]

Nothing wrong with healthy debate. You make a point, and you expect to have the subject dropped. IF you make a point, and I disagree with it, expect me to point out why, and not simply walk away just because you've said it. Who knows, you might convince me your point is right.

I've never seen the current mouse system used out side The Sims, and even then I believe they use mouse to edge of screen now. And the sims isn't even really a sim :P

Secondly, I am not arguing that a certain system be used JUST because it's in TW. I'm arguing that it should be used because really, it's been proven to work very well. On top of which, it is my perception that a large portion of the game's audience ARE actually TW players. Atleast from the number of active community members I reckognise.

Lastly, I am not DEMANDING changes. Perhaps other have, but I have not. I have simply argued the merits of a particular point of view. This debate seems to have gotten entirely personal, when it really has no right to be. I haven't insulted anyone, or given undue criticism.

[Gunner24]

I see the up,down, left and right arrows move the camera in the same way as in demo 1......is that going to be "fixed" for the full game do we know ?........it works now, but is very "jerky".

Press the V key to toggle "smooth scrolling",

Does this work with the up/down/left/right arrows ?......I better try it now, and report back later.

[Gunner24]

I se what the V does now, it makes the camera feel more like it's floating, but it has a nasty habit of turning upwards to the sky !.......still no good for my up/down/left/right arrows.

[Mooncabbage]

I am getting used to the camera, its a bit fiddly but you get the hang of it, the inability to strafe is a bit frustrating though. I would still like to see a more traditional camera system turn up at some point but there are other priorities for me.

[von_Clausewitz]

The camera system in LG is what it is. Anyone coming from a total War perspective (including me) will find it odd at first but very quickly you will get used to it and it will feel like second nature. JMM has other things that are much more pressing to finish for the imminent release. No time to overhaul the UI or control system. Maybe these issues will be adressed in future patches. So everyone's point is noted. Let us please move on.

Thank you.
VC

[Hook]

the inability to strafe

Hold down the shift key to "strafe" or move sideways.  This works with both the right mouse button and the arrow keys in F3 and F4 views, but does not work with F5 and F6 views.

Hook

[Mooncabbage]

Hold down the shift key to "strafe" or move sideways.  This works with both the right mouse button and the arrow keys in F3 and F4 views, but does not work with F5 and F6 views.

Hook

I wouldnt expect it to work in the views that rotate around a unit. Thanks for letting me know about the strafe key though, will save me much screwing around.