Auteur Sujet: "Runaway" stats.  (Lu 13175 fois)

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #75 le: 15 janvier 2010, 15:46:58 pm »
Citer
Posts that are mostly attempts to turn HWLG into a Total War clone are less welcome
Ha, where are they, I don't re-call any.  Anyone with a brain in their head can see that LG is nothing like TW games.  People who want TW games will stay with TW games, many of the TW Napoleonic Community are showing little interest in LG because it's not their type of game, others, like Moon, Grog and I (and others not active here yet) are WANTING to switch from TW to LG.

What is with all this anti TW feeling ?.......I played ntw2 (RomeTW mod), TAC WAR (EmpireTW mod) and TROM (EmpireTW mod) ONLY for two reasons, one reason, they are/were the only Napoleonic "type" games of their type, and the other reason was someting to do while waiting many years for LG.  

Those two games provided hundreds of hours of brillent MP games, anyone who thinks that is sub standard experience, because LG is new different type of game, and not worthy of taking notice of helpfull comments from those people - has missed something important.

I see no help in "looking down" on TW players, many of them may well become LG players - once they see the game working well.  Their comments about LG are as valid as anyone's.

For the record, I don't consider myself a "gamer".....I have not played a pc game, other than those quoted above, for over 10 years.  All I'm interested in is large scale Napoleonic battles, and I want to see LG as good as it can be.

 
« Modifié: 15 janvier 2010, 15:49:51 pm par Gunner24 »
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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #76 le: 17 janvier 2010, 11:36:22 am »
My problem is with the word ROUT -

which means - a disorderly retreat of defeated troops./ a decisive defeat. /defeat utterly and force to retreat.

I think the word Rout is too strong a word - and should be used for units going off map ( and even then a random number should rally and return to battle), and another word used for units that re-group to fight again such as retreating/ disorganised / pulling back/ Rallying etc..

Even at the end at Waterloo Napoleon's Guard did not ROUT but RETREAT !
 
  "La Garde recule. Sauve qui peut!"   "The Guard retreats. Save yourself if you can!"

To sum up - the number of units going off map (routing) seems high to me, some of them should rally and return.
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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #77 le: 17 janvier 2010, 12:14:21 pm »
My problem is with the word ROUT -

which means - a disorderly retreat of defeated troops./ a decisive defeat. /defeat utterly and force to retreat.

I think the word Rout is too strong a word - and should be used for units going off map ( and even then a random number should rally and return to battle), and another word used for units that re-group to fight again such as retreating/ disorganised / pulling back/ Rallying etc..

Rout in the game is an uncontrolled disorganized retreat that couldn't be prevented by the leaders.  I find the term "rout" confusing in the game myself, but haven't come up with a better term to describe it.  If I could, it would already be changed in the translation files.

Routing units will rally nearby and return to battle unless something happens to prevent this, like getting captured.

Citer
To sum up - the number of units going off map (routing) seems high to me, some of them should rally and return.

They don't leave the map until they are combat ineffective.  These guys will rally and reorganize (and collect troops that have scattered) and be ready for combat the next  day.  This has been discussed in this thread already.

Hook

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #78 le: 17 janvier 2010, 15:49:06 pm »
Rout in the game is an uncontrolled disorganized retreat that couldn't be prevented by the leaders.  I find the term "rout" confusing in the game myself, but haven't come up with a better term to describe it.  If I could, it would already be changed in the translation files.

Routing units will rally nearby and return to battle unless something happens to prevent this, like getting captured.

They don't leave the map until they are combat ineffective.  These guys will rally and reorganize (and collect troops that have scattered) and be ready for combat the next  day.  This has been discussed in this thread already.

Hook


Thanks for that Hook, prehaps what I mean is that some of combat ineffective troops leaving the battlefield should rally and come back...

I know it's only a word, but every time my Guard units 'rout' I moan to myself  "Guard units do not rout!" i'm sure I can live with it.

Can't wait for the full game!


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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #79 le: 17 janvier 2010, 16:10:26 pm »
Thanks for that Hook, prehaps what I mean is that some of combat ineffective troops leaving the battlefield should rally and come back...

I think what's happening is that they've left the battlefield because they've taken excessive losses.  Basically, they're no longer fit to fight.  I don't know how far this is actually modeled, but during combat you're going to lose a lot of troops who just scatter or leave the formations and don't return.  One of the things that's happening off map is these troops are slowly returning.  Many of them won't get back to their unit until some time overnight.  Wounded troops need to be treated and have some time to rest.  Leader casualties (officers and NCOs) need to be replaced.  Lots of things going on that take a while.

Citer
I know it's only a word, but every time my Guard units 'rout' I moan to myself  "Guard units do not rout!" i'm sure I can live with it.

I know, and I'm still looking for a better word for it.

Of course, it's only the enemy troops who "run away like scared children".  Your own troops will always "retreat expeditiously" or "withdraw in disorder" or some such. :)

It's interesting to note that one reason troops rout is because skirmishers target the leaders on the ends of the formation.  These guys are replaced by the file closers from the rear.  Their job is to make sure no one runs away, and when they're thinned out enough because they have to take a leader's place at the ends of the line, the troops find it easier to leave the formation.

Hook

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #80 le: 17 janvier 2010, 18:32:12 pm »
The word I am actually missing is "retire"...I hope this is correct in this context - I believe I have read it some times in books for a situation where a unit realizes it has no chance of winning, but is not yet broken or routed andd decides to break formation and "retires" behind the own lines to regroup and reform...

The example I am referring to is my observation of the Grenadiers a CHeval charging from my reserve...THey charged, captured the enemy unit, reformed/rallied, and then face an enemy square - but before they suffered any casualties they (in our case here "routed" which is wrong, but ) "retired", I believe the correct term would be, behind their own lines to reform/rally...
In order to be able to retreat more quickly they chose to break formation and head back...As I am not native English it's a bit difficult to express and explain this "retire" as I am not even sure it's correct in this context...but it was the first thing that came to my mind, and having read lots of english literature on this time (as there isn't much in any other language than english and french... :lol:) i thought I'd state my thoughts here...correct me if I'm wrong...
"parcere subiectis et debellare superbos", Vergil

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #81 le: 17 janvier 2010, 18:57:34 pm »
The word I am actually missing is "retire"...I hope this is correct in this context - I believe I have read it some times in books for a situation where a unit realizes it has no chance of winning, but is not yet broken or routed andd decides to break formation and "retires" behind the own lines to regroup and reform...

"Retire" is used in English in that context, and thanks for that description.

We have a "Unit in flight" status in the game that seems to be what you're talking about above. 

Are there any other terms that describe an "uncontrolled disordered retreat that wasn't ordered by a commander"?  The problem with working with translations is, once some word has been suggested, it's hard to think of another one.

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #82 le: 17 janvier 2010, 21:09:31 pm »
Being somebody who's native language is English the best term for a "uncontrolled disordered retreat that wasn't ordered by a commander" is in my opinion Rout. The key word in the description being "Uncontrolled".  To me the larger issue is the "Unit in flight" designation which to many will be very nearly if not the same as a rout,use of the word "Flight" being the problem. Withdraw or retiring perhaps being a better choice, something of a more intermediate nature.

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #83 le: 18 janvier 2010, 15:35:12 pm »
Citer
the best term for a "uncontrolled disordered retreat that wasn't ordered by a commander" is in my opinion Rout
Yes, I agree......if it were NOT uncontrolled and disordered, then something like :

Pull back.
Retreat.
Re-group
Withdraw.
Withdraw to re-group.
Withdraw to re-organise.

might be ok.
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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #84 le: 18 janvier 2010, 16:07:59 pm »
I don't even know why I'm uncomfortable with the term "rout".

Routs happen when the unit's morale is low.  The unit will withdraw from battle without orders from its officers.  It will be disordered, cannot be given orders and cannot fight.  If caught in melee, it will be captured.  It will require time to rally before being able to fight again.

Does anyone have anything else to add to that?

If enemy cavalry is chasing a routed unit, they won't be able to rally.  I've seen them chasing routed units all over the map.

I've seen various unit statuses like "Unit out of control" or "Unit in flight" but these do not seem to have anything to do with routing.  There are also "Unit wavering" and "Unit recoil".

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Re : "Runaway" stats.
« Réponse #85 le: 18 janvier 2010, 20:20:18 pm »
I have seen wavering and recoil too. Does recoil make a unit pull back a few meters? Or maybe it is just the 3D graphics acting up.

Technically it is a rout as the unit seem totally defenseless. I'm just questioning the need to rout like that. The unit is falling back to automatically reform in safety. If the unit would be recoiling instead and only rout if its morale was extra low then I would be more happy about it.


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