First Impressions of the demo

[atd]

1 Manual contains some odd quirks. When did rectangles become parallelograms for example? Worse, some of the keys are incorrectly specified - the manual is actually providing disinformation.

2 Musket sounds are dreadful.

3 There are too many bugs to list, from units going around in circles to other inexplicable manoeuvres in the face of the enemy. Mousing over the wrong part of a corps commander causes the Army Leader to be displayed instead.

4 The user interface is awful - lots of impenetrable data but virtually no easily accessible information. The F3 data displays are hard on the eyes - very pixellated. The use of £ for lb is... regrettable. What have the beta testers been doing???

5 The sound balance is way out. Why are the ambient environmental sounds so overstated?

6 The F3 view looks nothing like (yes, nothing like) the layout of a Napoleonic army. It does look like a miniatures game. Why the massive separation between units?

Copying as much of Sid Meire's work as possible would have been so much more productive. At least those high-handed twits at --------- are no longer involved...

[Hook]

1 Manual contains some odd quirks. When did rectangles become parallelograms for example? Worse, some of the keys are incorrectly specified - the manual is actually providing disinformation.

Feel free to make a list of corrections.  That's what I did when I first got the manual.  You'll find things I missed.

2 Musket sounds are dreadful.

The musket sounds appear to have been taken from recordings of actual Napoleonic era muskets being fired.  It's not what we're used to hearing in games.

4 The user interface is awful - lots of impenetrable data but virtually no easily accessible information. The F3 data displays are hard on the eyes - very pixellated.

There's a lot of data.  Eventually you get used to finding what you need.

If you can set up your graphics card to use 4x antialiasing and 8x anisotropic filtering, you might like the way it looks better. This doesn't do much for the pixelation of the font, but changing to a higher screen resolution will help some.  Also, press the F key to change to an alternate font.

5 The sound balance is way out. Why are the ambient environmental sounds so overstated?

Which sounds?  The birds?  I haven't really noticed an imbalance in the sounds. Is this in the first tutorial or in the full Montebello battle?

6 The F3 view looks nothing like (yes, nothing like) the layout of a Napoleonic army. It does look like a miniatures game. Why the massive separation between units?

The separation is to give each unit room to deploy in line.  It looks odd at first because you're used to seeing miniatures, where everyone is close together.

Copying as much of Sid Meire's work as possible would have been so much more productive.

Sid Meier's Gettysburg was a good game for the day. You might remember my fansite, Gettysburg Annex, which is now mostly in archive mode.  Breakaway Games did two Napoleonic games based on the engine.  These were good too, but they weren't simulations. 

Histwar is a simulation.  Things are very different.  There is very little micromanagement.  Once you get used to the idea that you, as the army commander, give orders to the corps commanders who carry them out with considerable autonomy you might find you like the game.

I think a lot of people find the demo a little odd at first.  Most of them have come around and are praising it now.

Hook

[Holdit]

1 Manual contains some odd quirks. When did rectangles become parallelograms for example? Worse, some of the keys are incorrectly specified - the manual is actually providing disinformation.

There are a few translations that are wide of the mark alright. The game and manual need reviewing by a native English-speaker who is also a good French speaker.

2 Musket sounds are dreadful.

Agreed. The artillery also seems to be deafening even when there are no batteries nearby. Cpl Steiner has issued a mod for this already - look a few threads down. The stangest thing about the weird musketry sounds is that I was looking at a HLG video on YouTube the other day and the musket sounds were fine.

3 There are too many bugs to list, from units going around in circles to other inexplicable manoeuvres in the face of the enemy. Mousing over the wrong part of a corps commander causes the Army Leader to be displayed instead.

JMM has acknowledged that the AI needs work. Apparently he made some changes to it before releasing the demo.

4 The user interface is awful - lots of impenetrable data but virtually no easily accessible information. The F3 data displays are hard on the eyes - very pixellated. The use of £ for lb is... regrettable. What have the beta testers been doing???

The user interface takes a bit of getting used to alright, but I don't think it's as bad as all that. This is one game where reading the manual is mandatory. That question has been asked about the beta testers, but it seems that the demo plays out rather differently than the beta. The interface would be the same, though.

5 The sound balance is way out. Why are the ambient environmental sounds so overstated?

Agreed.

6 The F3 view looks nothing like (yes, nothing like) the layout of a Napoleonic army. It does look like a miniatures game. Why the massive separation between units?

Now this was precisely my reaction when I first saw the 3D view. I partly put it down to culture shock, especially if you've been brought up on a diet of Battleground/HPS and/or miniatures. The other part I put down to the fact that all units are initially deployed in march column, with sufficient gaps between units for them to deploy without colliding with their neighbours. This may just be an aspect of the demo, as my understanding is that, historically, units would have reached their deployment areas in march column, but would have actually deployed in column or line, depending on the situation or doctrine. The initial deployments in the demo are also much further apart that you would expect to see in an actual battle.

Here's a quote from another game designer: "If one could go through time to watch an actual period battle, the first impression would be one of closeness. The armies would form at not much over 1200 yards from each other (just outside of effective artillery range). Infantry lines appear as ribbons waving across the landscape. Columns of 70 yards wide by 15 yards deep do not look like a miniatures column; the depth is much less than the width. these dense masses merely dot a surprisingly open landscape..."
Bob Coggins ("Napoleon's Battles" miniatures rules)

At least those high-handed twits at --------- are no longer involved...

Quite.

Holdit

[quartermaster]

6 The F3 view looks nothing like (yes, nothing like) the layout of a Napoleonic army. It does look like a miniatures game. Why the massive separation between units?

There are many different perceptions of the battlefields of this era.  Personally I go with the paintings by Simeone Fort and Thomas Yung which show thin battle lines and the use of deep columns for the approach march.

Search for these artists for pictures and you will find some small scale impressions of these pictures.

[Holdit]

The musket sounds appear to have been taken from recordings of actual Napoleonic era muskets being fired.  It's not what we're used to hearing in games.

I've heard Napoleonic muskets being fired. I've even fired one myself. I don't remember hearing anything that sounded like the muskets sounds in the demo though. 

Holdit

[JMM]

By now, the name of my previous publisher will be automatically replaced by -----

That said, you don't know nothing... Clear some guys don't like my choice but you'll not rewrite the story 

JMM

[JMM]

6 The F3 view looks nothing like (yes, nothing like) the layout of a Napoleonic army. It does look like a miniatures game. Why the massive separation between units?

Do you have an idea about what it was really going on ? Pictures present an artist view, no more...
In the game, the scale is right... so I think the 3D render is right.

JMM

[Holdit]

By now, the name of my previous publisher will be automatically replaced by -----

That said, you don't know nothing... Clear some guys don't like my choice but you'll not rewrite the story 

JMM

Peut-etre quelquechose a ete perdu dans la traduction; les remarques originales ci-dessus ne sont pas du tout de soutien de "--------------".

Holdit

[LNDavout]

I think LG is the first game ever that gets close to the real scale.

Packet in masses the corpses would have been easy targets with no room to develop the formations.

[HarryInk]

This scale does take a getting used too, doesn't it!  And imagine if the figures were 1;1 rather than 1:10, and thus about a 3rd the height.  How far away would that other regiment look then?  But it was so much the case. 

[Tirailleur]

The musket sounds appear to have been taken from recordings of actual Napoleonic era muskets being fired.  It's not what we're used to hearing in games.

Hook

First, as I said before I like this game and if the sound in the game is like it is - it's fine for me.
And as I said before too, I had some time as a reenactor and took part in reenacted battles like the 200th anniversary of Jena. So I had some hundred (smaller actions) to thousand muskets around me.

Yes it is true, the musket sound is a little bit thin, it sounds not typical like this in real - it sounds more like that the powder had become wet. Ok, it is true too, that these are recordings of muskets - but I think this recordings miss something...

Where did the recording took place? What type of microphone was taken? With bullet, without? And so on...

I think a little bit more depth, a little bit more hall from a recording in the field
and important: salt and pepper  .

Clear some guys don't like my choice

JMM

JMM, I like your choice 

[Hook]

I had some time as a reenactor...

Ah, good.  That's going to be useful experience for us.  Expect questions.

it sounds more like that the powder had become wet.

That might be intentional for battles in rain.  Just need some additional recordings of muskets in better conditions, to figure out which one the game uses for each condition.

Where did the recording took place? What type of microphone was taken? With bullet, without? And so on...

"Where" would include close or far away, in front or behind.  "And so on" would include musket, carbine or rifle.  Am I missing anything?

I've found 8 musket sound files in the game, two of which seem to be duplicates of two others.  There should be enough variety there for modders to use their own sounds.

JMM, I like your choice 

I think everyone likes JMM's choice.  At least all the customers.

Hook

[von Döbeln]

To me it sounds in themselves are ok but the quality is very low as in they have a very low bitrate. They sound like coming from a telephone or an old radio. The sound files are also about 1/7 in size compared to the "modded" ones someone posted, so I think they could be remedied by making them a better sound quality.

LvD

[Tirailleur]

To me it sounds in themselves are ok but the quality is very low as in they have a very low bitrate. They sound like coming from a telephone or an old radio. The sound files are also about 1/7 in size compared to the "modded" ones someone posted, so I think they could be remedied by making them a better sound quality.

LvD

Yes, that could be the solution.

[atd]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I'm using the best settings for the game with the very  best of hardware.

The problem with the data isn't simply one of accessibility - it's mainly the difficulty of assimilating the data. It's analogous to the difference between looking at tables of figures, compared to a graph. On the F3 view, I find it awkward not to know where one corps ends and another begins. There's a reasonable justification for this on grounds of realism I suppose.

The game will only fulfil its claim to be a simulation when all the anomalies are resolved. Unless the demo substantially differs from the release, this is going to take quite a long time. Until then, it's going to be frustrating to try to use something with such great potential but with things going wrong all the time.

Don't blame the messenger for the message JMM.