How best to "retreat" a Corps ?.

[Gunner24]

How are people pulling back a Corps from the front line if it looks in serious trouble ?....using the march to order ?.....or deploy on line ?.

[Pariente]

I heard once that a retreating Army corps never turns its back to the enemy totally :

1) Its first line withdraws and fall in again behind the second line.
2) The second line acts similarly.
And so on...

Then, I guess a « Defend on line » order may have the effect I am talking about.

[Hook]

A corps commander will sometimes order a retreat on his own.  

I'd prefer to send another corps to fight, passing through the one in trouble to engage the enemy, rather than trying to simply order a retreat.  At least if you do that, it should be easier for the corps in trouble to get away.

Edit to add:  If you're fighting a delaying action, then it's a whole different problem.  

Disengaging from a fight was always known to be difficult.

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[Pariente]

Retreating allied units may have a severe impact on arriving units' moral.

To retreat a corps and minimize losses : cavalry and artillery support to stop the ennemy advance.

[Hook]

I'm still trying to figure out if Gunner24 is asking the wrong question.

If I send a corps forward into battle, I expect them to stay there until they are no longer able to fight.  When they start to weaken, I send in reserves.  If I run out of reserves in that area of the battlefield, I've lost that fight.  Reserves in the rear will have to take care of enemy units breaking through.

When a corps is in trouble and doesn't have reserves (another corps nearby behind them) there's not a lot you can do.  Given the order delays, by the time any order you give to retreat gets there, it's probably too late anyway.  And you never know when the corps commander will be able to handle the situation on his own, and an order to retreat would end up hurting you.

In most games, you get punished for keeping reserves out of the front lines.  In HistWar it's essential to have reserves.  It's nice to see it done right for a change.

Fighting a delaying action is one of those interesting tactical problems I've been wanting to do in the game.  I haven't tried it yet.  I think what I'll try first is to have two defensive lines, one behind the other several hundred meters apart, the best distance has yet to be determined.  When the enemy forces start deploying and their pretty lines start to break up, order a forced march to the rear behind the second line and set up a new defensive line there.  This will take careful timing with the order delays.  Repeat as necessary.  You'll need cavalry and artillery to help, and you'll probably lose most of them in the process.

You might try the same thing if you've stumbled across the entire enemy force at one end of the field and have to hold until your reserves can get there from across the battlefield.

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[quartermaster]

I am aware of the following tactics for retreating.

1/ To retreat in chess-board manner.  The units in the front are paired - right and left.  All the "lefts" retreat 100 yards and reform line, skirmishers fill the gap.  Next the "rights" fall back to and through the line made by the "lefts",  skirmishers move across to cover the "rights".

2/ First line performs passage of lines through the second.  This is risky as basically the first line presents its rear to the enemy.

3/ Have the staff mark out a line in rear then order the figting troups to rush to the rear in a hurry and reform.  Ney did this in Portugal 1810 and Jomini seems to think this is a good method.

Unless the AI can do this I suspect we would have to micromanage the units retreating - order unengaged regiments to form a line in the rear and have the other units retreat as best the can disengaging from combat.

[JMM]

For the retreat, you have to use the deployment order to define the final line of deployment.

AI Corps is able to adjust its organisation for this kind of movement because the rules are different to place the units on the line (offensive march vs retreat march).

That said, the best is to choose the chess-board system.

JMM

PS : no time today for describing the difference between the 2 modes (but if I am right, AI tries to place the artillery on the second line for saving it)

[Gunner24]

Interesting stuff, I figured "deploy" was perhaps best.....I maybe asked the wrong question, I was thinking rather than have the [AI] Corps look after it's self and retreat/rout in part it would be better (if possible) to make an orderly "fall back" position, so deploy on line sounds best - if the order can get though in time.....of course while this is happening a reserve Corps takes a defend position while the shot up Corps falls back.

[lodi57]

- if the order can get though in time.....of course while this is happening a reserve Corps takes a defend position while the shot up Corps falls back.

Remember that if a corp B has a liaison order to support a corp A, when A will retreat it is replaced automatically by B and then A can rally behind B and becomes its support.

[Hook]

Remember that if a corp B has a liaison order to support a corp A, when A will retreat it is replaced automatically by B and then A can rally behind B and becomes its support.

What I'm seeing in the demo is that corps A and corps B both try to fight on the front lines at the same time.  And corps C, in support of corps B, moved forward and fought as well.  Eventually, corps C was the only corps that decided to retreat, and at least one of his units made it off the map before I got him stopped by giving him a defensive line order.

I'm hoping that's not fully implemented yet.

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[lodi57]

What I'm seeing in the demo is that corps A and corps B both try to fight on the front lines at the same time.  And corps C, in support of corps B, moved forward and fought as well.  Eventually, corps C was the only corps that decided to retreat, and at least one of his units made it off the map before I got him stopped by giving him a defensive line order.

Strange ! Because with the beta it's worked well for months.

[Hook]

Strange ! Because with the beta it's worked well for months.

In that case, maybe it was because I had 3 corps linked in support.  Corps A in front, Corps B supporting A, and corps C supporting B.

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