How are corps supose to operate in the game

[Gunfreak]

Now I'm not sure if this is one of the problems with the ai of the demo or if I'm doing something wrong.

When ever I order a crops to attack the enemy, I draw a line behind the enemy.

The order takes some time to take affect. and then the corps start to move, but it only takes about 10 minutes before the units of the corps drift apart, some brigades start to move far away while others just stop and by half an hour the corps is spread out over sevral miles long before they even make contact with the enemy

This is just one example


After I orderd the corps to attack, it first moved back AWAY from the enemy almost 1500 meters, then concentrated, it then as you see only sends two brigades forward, the rest either move back futher or stay put, this happend to EVERY corps I order to attack, some brigades stay while other move,
This ofcourse negates the point of the corps, if it's seperates it can be destroyed peicemel and then you loose, this makes it VERY hard to actualy preform a cordinated attacks.

I know the corps CAN prefrom concentration movments, why dosn't it do it as soon as units get to far away, The commander should always keep track of it's brigades.

So my question is. does this happen in the full game, do other people have this problem with the demo?

[Hook]

Your other corps appear to have done a fairly good job, so it doesn't happen every time.  One of the corps looks like it has part of its forces in reserve, a bit behind the lines, and all of them have deployed their artillery behind the lines to keep them safe.

The corps with the problem appears to have gotten hung up on the Swedish(?) unit in defensive line in front of it.  It's not a normal unit icon, it's a small flag without a border.  Notice the little blue arrows in front of it.  The arrows and the flag icon indicate a defensive line.  The real question is why the other two units advanced as far as they did.

One of your corps has reached its objective and has formed a defensive line itself, in the bottom center of the map.

You might look at the saved battle using the "Load a Video" option and look at the units in the rear in 3D mode to see what's happening.

Hook

[Gunner24]

I can only guess but from looking at the picture, maybe the right hand Regiments (2) advanced as there was no enemy to their front, but the left hand (3) Regiments hung back because the Russians were in a defensive line, but even so, it does look a little odd.

[Cpl Steiner]

More often than not I think strange things appear to happen in this game because the AI is so smart rather than it being buggy.

As Hook says, corps have a reserve. I think it's 50% by default but you can change it. That might explain why some battalions are far ahead of the rest - they presumably are the other 50% or so the corps commander has committed to the battle.

As for why they are miles ahead, I've noticed sometimes corps commanders seem to spontaneously lend support to each other. I've seen artillery batteries advance well forward of their parent unit in support of other corps.

[Gunner24]

Ahhh yes, the reserve, I think your right, 50% seems the default, which appears too high for me, but in the demo we have Corps with not many Regiments in them, if there are 4, then 2 are forward and 2 are held back.......if we had 8 Regiments, or more, will will see the Corps deploy in more of a line than a "box" type formation.

[gazfun]

Ive had a chance to download the demo
There is no Doctrine that can be editiable in this demo, that is in the full game.
Now I see that because of lack of Doctrine some regiments may have acted in accordance with the local situation as they see it.  Not necessary how you see it as Corps or Army Commander.  Sometimes the Colonel at his level always see a differant picture to you, some colonels are slower than others, some are go getters.
That is your job as Army or Corps Commander to set these paramaters to sub units under your command. Otherwise you will be running around micro managing every unit, and that is not always desirable either.
Fine tweeking done by the doctrine editor, which means that regiments could act more appopiatley, the way you want to keep Army or Corps integrity during a fight.
Do not underestimate this feature.
Also with advancing under a deploy order, this ensures that the whole corps move together, as one unit and coordinated, if a corps has had a reversal, the Corps will withdraw certain units to ensure that Corps integrity is maintained, under the current order you gave.
If you have pushed of an area you have tried to establish a line, then you will get the Corps having integrity problem, and you may have to defend on a differant defense line.

[HarryInk]

thanks for that clarification, Gaz.

[englishoo7]

Ahhh... This for me has been a real sticking point. I imagined my corps hitting the enemy line like a sledgehammer, close together and rolling over those weak Austrians after a brief firefight. This has not happened to date.  I thought it might be my fault, that I had put out too much artillery in theitr way as I noticed my regiments wheeling around these batteries.


 :Can any beta tester tell me if in the actual game do regiments hit the enemy line together, almost in-step, with every regiment pretty close to the next and not spaced out?

[gazfun]

It depends on the length of your deploy or defense line and the terrain, you want the Corps or Division to cover.
Infantry can suffer morale issues during the advance, by artillery fire.
But again you have to orgainise your doctrine appropiatley

[lodi57]

So my question is. does this happen in the full game, do other people have this problem with the demo?

No, it's not a problem with the demo.

If we are talking about Ney's corp you can see in the CC box that the corp is in disorder. The question is, why ?

The line under indicates that you gave to this corp a "march" order (corps marching). What you have to know about this order is :

1. Every unit wil march to the indicated  point at is maximum speed (so increasing tiredness) and some units are faster than others, that's the reason why about 10 mn or more your corps is in disorder.

2. The most important thing to know about the "march" order is that units are not under Tactical-AI for the time they move to the indicated point. It means that there is no support between each others like with the "deploy" order. So if your corp meets with an enemy corps that are deployed, it will be scattered with little chance to rally it.

I experienced this during a test where a french corp in march was scattered by a bavarian one. I have never been able to rally it during the battle. Consequently, I advise you to avoid giving "march" order to units of the first line but use it for units in the second line (especially to move from center to wing or wing to wing) or in very urgent case.

[Gunner24]

I advise you to avoid giving "march" order to units of the first line but use it for units in the second line (especially to move from center to wing or wing to wing) or in very urgent case

Good advice this, march is what it says on the box, march, from point A to point B and NOT anywhere near the enemy !.

We have all read accounts of troops on the march, in any era, being slaughtered by an attack before they have time to deploy correctly, it would seem this is the case with LG.

[Gunfreak]

I had not given the march order, I gave the deploy order.

It happed with all the other corps to, but as the enemy's line colapsed the other units started to move on their own, just running around, it's just a coincidence that they all apear to be concentrated, they had all run around like headless chickens

[quartermaster]

Lodi, I would have expected a corp to march and fight for 8 hours in a day so 10 minutes seems a little short before fatigue should seriously degrade a force.

Grand tactical movement by column of peleton or division (one batallion behind the other) seems to have been the doctrine.

[Hook]

No one fights for 8 hours.  Most of the time is spent standing around. 

Any given infantry battalion is good for one, maybe two 15 minute firefights before they have to take a break.  Any melee will exhaust them even more quickly.

It's a little easier on cavalry, but in that case it's the horses that get exhausted.  One or two charges will leave the horses blown and they have to rest to recover.

In the case of artillery, it's firing the guns that is tiring.  The guns have to be run back into position after they recoil.  You can fire the guns all day, but the rate of fire goes down after a while. Most artillery units fire an average of one round every 2 minutes over the course of a day's battle, even when firing continuously.

Hook

[lodi57]

Lodi, I would have expected a corp to march and fight for 8 hours in a day so 10 minutes seems a little short before fatigue should seriously degrade a force.

I didn't said that the fatigue seriously degrade a force after 10 mn but that advancing at accelarate pace increases the fatigue and, btw unit cohesion (ranks alignments but also alignment between regiments).