for the Betatesters

[FranzVonG]

Just a quick question: is the beta as bugged and unplayable as the demo?
I'm asking this because on every forum that I read, the reactions to HLG moved from "great! Let's wait for it" to "meh, it's terrible" after the demo release.
I will buy the game nonetheless, but JMM needs more money than mine  

[Gunner24]

I was 100% certain to buy, now not so certain, I think the demo MUST be faulty/bugged.....no way can the beta testers have missed all the stuff that's wrong, totaly impossible........if they did, heck, that's not good to even think about.

[Cpl Steiner]

.no way can the beta testers have missed all the stuff that's wrong, totaly impossible........if they did, heck, that's not good to even think about.

Actually, they quite easily could have. There are lots and lots of PC setups out there, and the one you have might not be one that any of the Beta Testers have. I am having problems myself (Windows 7 64-bit, latest nVidia beta drivers) so I feel your pain but it is far too simple to blame the beta testers who may simply have not see the problems you, or I, are experiencing.

Actually, that's a good thing. It means the game isn't that buggy as the Beta Testers aren't seeing these issues. It just means the game needs some tweaking for users with certain PC setups.

[Gunfreak]

So far the AI is lacking on EVERY system, this is not a system by system problem it's a code problem.
JMM has said the AI works in the full game, so I belive that.

[Cpl Steiner]

So far the AI is lacking on EVERY system, this is not a system by system problem it's a code problem.
JMM has said the AI works in the full game, so I belive that.

Well, it's possible I am more aware of the CTD/teleporting issues than the AI issues just because that's what is happening more to me during the limited amount of time I've played the demo. If there are AI issues as well and JMM says they aren't in the full game, I believe him too.

[Gunner24]

I have had NO technical problems at all, the game installs and plays, no prob......but the "daft" stuff is the same for everyone.

JMM has said the AI works in the full game, so I belive that.

Has he said that though ?.....are you sure that's what he means ?.....I've been told the full game is the SAME as the demo.

[Pariente]

It is just a demo.

It means that it may give you a foretaste of what the game will be.

JMM said the demo encountered more « bugs » than expected, but the demo is not the game.

After so many years of work, one thing is certain, JMM would never release an unfinished game.

Patience...

[Gunner24]

JMM said the demo encountered more « bugs » than expected, but the demo is not the game

Sure, I think most people do realise that, but the "workings" of the game are in the demo, or is some important stuff (like the AI) not in the demo ?......I think the bugs comment was to do with the crash's and the map edges......but what about the basic functions of the game play - are they DIFFERENT (better) in the game ?......that's the really big question.

[Cpl Steiner]

So far the AI is lacking on EVERY system, this is not a system by system problem it's a code problem.
JMM has said the AI works in the full game, so I belive that.

I just had a quick game tonight - Solo mode. One of my corps had no orders and the AI controlled Austrians advanced on it. My corps with no orders immediately deployed a defensive line and dispatched a couple of cavalry units to threaten the advancing Austrians. The Austrians formed square to counter the cavalry threat, and were subsequently shredded by air-burstiing shrapnel rounds from my corps' artillery unit - all without any input from me. I'd say that was quite an effective display of AI, wouldn't you?

[Gunner24]

Yes, it has some beillent stuff in it, but you must have read some of the other comments posted here.  I don't think people are dreaming up things that are wrong, but reporting things they find in a best attempt to help show what the problems are, so that they can be fixed.

[Cpl Steiner]

Yes, it has some beillent stuff in it, but you must have read some of the other comments posted here.  I don't think people are dreaming up things that are wrong, but reporting things they find in a best attempt to help show what the problems are, so that they can be fixed.

Absolutely agree. We need some open and honest discussion about the things that aren't working well but we need to be very careful to not make sweeping statements like "there is no AI" or "the enemy can't attack because of the completely lackluster AI" (or words to that effect) when with my own eyes I've seen something to the contrary.

I remember when I first got CM:SF I had teleporting units, CTDs and all the rest of it, just like we are seeing with HW:LG right now. I think as long as JMM is committed to fixing all these issues - for ALL users - then we will have a gem of a game in about 6 months time.

[Hook]

Gunner24, I think a lot of people haven't figured out how to play the game yet, and when the game doesn't do what they expect, they have to wonder if it's a bug.  I've been there myself.

We know there ARE bugs;  JMM has mentioned some himself.  And he's also said the AI is not finished.  He made some changes recently that added some bugs.  We can't blame the beta testers for that.  Can't blame JMM either, it's just the nature of the software development process.  So far, the bugs I've seen reported should be fairly simple fixes, although it might take some time to find out exactly where they are happening.  That's normal.

I think we've got a good solid game here, and JMM has done a great job.  Perhaps the demo was released a bit too soon, but I think you understand the political reasons for that.  Just give it time to bake a bit longer, and it'll be great.  I'm going to trust JMM to get it right.

From everything I can see, the demo IS the game with a few features disabled and the editing programs not included, and only a limited number of maps and orders of battle.  If the full game had been released instead of the demo, the only difference you'd see would be more battles, multiplayer, the ability to load and continue a saved game, and the editors for the maps, orders of battle and doctrine.

I played my last battle on the 2D map and didn't see anything really wrong, except for a couple of units simply disappearing.  That kind of thing won't be difficult to fix.

Keep in mind that whenever the game doesn't do what you expect, it may not be a bug but intentional behavior, like the guns moving forward of your lines so they can fire on the enemy.  The game has done things I didn't expect, and didn't necessarily want, but after reflecting on it a bit I've decided it's usually within the design parameters of the game.  

Some things do appear to be bugs, like units facing at right angles to a unit they're firing on, and even that might be intentional behavior, although I'd consider it wrong.  For now, I'd say report it, but give it the benefit of the doubt unless it's really messed up.

I suspect the betatesters played a lot of the game on the 2D map, where a lot of problems simply don't show up.  If that's the case, consider the demo to be an open beta test, and be glad you're able to be a part of it.

Hook

[LNDavout]

I absolutely agree with Hook.

This Demo is the right thing to get a big Beta to see what happens on masses of PCs.

The only thing that really makes me think are the crashes. Other things seem to be graphics bugs.

Would be really helpfull if other companys would do the same tests with us before sellin a game

GO JMM GO

[Hook]

Are you getting crashes that aren't caused by going too close to the edge of the map?  That one should be a simple fix.

I haven't had any crashes myself so far.

Also, I'd like to thank the beta team for all its hard work.  I know you guys don't get thanked often enough, and I know from personal experience that it really is work, and not just play, and can sometimes be very frustrating.  It can also be extremely rewarding, especially when you find something you can fix yourself and take some load off JMM, or when you can narrow down a bug to a very specific cause making finding it in the code trivial for JMM.  Thanks, guys.

Hook

[englishoo7]

I sort of feel a 'loyalty' to this game having waited so long. I must say though that much of what gunner has said is right. People are saying on other threads that the demo is different from the full game (though I havent read JMM saying that anywhere) because they have seen quite a lot of bugs. Surely this points to quite a few unsatisfied players? That said I have only read what amounts to constructed criticism, but it is still criticism.
I have played the demo a lot. There are certainly flashes of brilliance. Troops advancing. The control system is thoughtful and deep. A great amount of information all there easy to access. But...

I have watched 4000 cavalry leave the map showing 'escape' on their card after being ordered to attack some infantry without ever taking a casualty?

I have seen the enemy HQ ride agagin and again through my regiments?

I have watched 4 battalians all move into the same impossibly small space before routing?

I have  seen regiments just stand and stare at other regiments without firing a shot while cavalry way behind my lines in reserve suddenly charge ahead and attack?

Regiments dissapear and get stuck in the landscape?

As I said there is a great game in there, a fantastic game. I can wait for divisions to be implemented so I can order them individually and I can put up with the terrible mucket sounds.  But all the other stuff is nothing to do with how my computer is set up, its the game! If this is the finished product then I will still buy it, I owe JMM I feel for all the hard work he has put in, and I will hope that these things are put right...

I really hope it is just a buggy demo, as for patience, we have been waiting years and this game has been checked by the beta testers for some time... surely they cannot have just been watching in 2D mode??
... I really hope it is a bug infested Demo...