artillery ranges

[Gunfreak]

Sorry for all the post, but reading the manual leaves me with many questions


I've gotten to the artillery parts, now the maximum ranges seem a bit hight, at least the canister, 800 yards for 12pdr is alot, from what Iv'e read canister was mostly used with in 400 yards, and only got realy effecive at less then 300.

Also how often would it be possible to fire the full 1800 yards with a 12pdr I know the ball could be fired that far, but artillery is only usefull as long as the gunners can see were the balls hit, which often was no more then a 1000 yeads, even in cleear weather.

So how does the cannon work.

[Gunner24]

Interesting, I must have missed this bit in my quick read, I must find it, very good question......if the "sight" of the crew is only 800 yards it matters not that the cannon ball can travel 1800.

Cannister at 800 sounds very nasty, if your trying to attack !.....sounds ok if defending.

[CBR]

IIRC the French did consider 650 meters as max range for their heavy cannister rounds. Long range fire at up to 1800 meters is fair enough as long as it does not produce many hits.

[Hook]

The artillery ranges are comparable to those in the Kriegsspiel rules, which were considered accurate by the people who actually fought Napoleonic battles.  The roundshot ranges are a bit shorter in the Kriegsspiel rules, 1500 meters rather than 1800, and that is only for ricochet shots.

Hook

[Gunfreak]

I would asume that fire at max ranges might not allways be the best.
Just like infantry you can in theory fire at 150 yards, but you won't hit much, all you acomplish is fauling the guns and waisting ammo.

I would think the same goes for arty.

I also asume you can edit the max fire range in the doctrine editor, like you can with musket fire.

[Hook]

I'm guessing the gunners are smart enough not to waste ammunition.  I'm going to trust JMM to implement this properly.

As long as there is any target effect, I'd prefer my gunners fire if they have a target and plenty of ammunition.  In any case they should be firing in the game if they would have been firing in real life. 

We'll have to wait for the game to see if artillery is balanced.

Hook

[von_Clausewitz]

It is hard with all the available references on artillery of the era and the different units of measurement used to actually find an accurate consensus on the ranges. +/- 200 yards is not very important IMHO, what will eventually matter is the balance of the artillery in the game. As long as it is balanced i am happy. Now if the feedback on release is that artillery is unbalanced or overpowered, I am sure JMM will fix that.

VC 

[dieseltaylor]

Maximum range of a French 12pdr was 1800metres but effective range was deemed to be 900. Muller noted in tests against a 6ft screen that at 950yards [823metres] the hit percentage was 26% and at 1300 yards[1188metres] it was 15%.

Muller also found that 6pdr cannister at 400yards would have 41% od the bullets effective, dropping to 23% at 600 yards.

All this and more in Haythornthwaite's Weapons and Equipment of the Napoleonic Wars.

Edit. Mercer wrote that his troop of the Royal Horse Artillery - 6 guns comprised of 226 horses and 187 men. Thats one hell of a tail. In fact a British complaint was that Russian Armies were too artillery heavy - a major drawback in poor weather or with limited forage.

Incidentally if anyone fancies a copy of Mercer's autobiography my local antique bookshop has an 1862 copy for £20.

[von_Clausewitz]

To be honest i do not know who the guy is, but hell i'll buy an 1862 book for 20 pounds. What's the catch?

VC

[Gunfreak]

Mercer was an Artillery captain leading a troop of horse artillery at Waterloo, he ended his carrer at a general.

But I though his biography was released in 1870 after he died

[JMM]

One of my English books : Artillery of the Napoleonic War 1792-1815 by Kevin F Kiley (Greenhill Books)

Several authors studied the artillery during this epoch; unfortunately, the results aren't often identical.
I tried to do a synthesis both for different cannons and for different countries.

About the canister : the efficiency decreases with the distance from cannon to target. The distance in the Book is the maximal range.
I am no sure, but I believe AI switches between the types (roundshot to canister) at 66% of this maximal range

About the roundshot : during a first step, cannon adjusts the target; number of "white" shots before hitting the target increases with the distance.
If the target is at a distance lower than 66% of the maximal range, the strength is maximal; above this distance, the roundshot energy decreases.

After several shot, the visibility decreases; so the cannon must halt during several minutes.
At this hour, AI takes care this feature.. but the graphical render doesn't display the accumulation of smoke.

JMM

[Gunfreak]

Thanks JMM I was a afraid I 12pdr HAD to fire canister when a unit comes with in 800 yards

[von_Clausewitz]

Mercer was an Artillery captain leading a troop of horse artillery at Waterloo, he ended his carrer at a general.

But I though his biography was released in 1870 after he died

so how do we buy this 1862/1870 manuscript?

VC

[Hook]

Mercer also wrote a journal of the Waterloo campaign.  This should be available at Amazon.  It seems mostly to be a travelogue of the countryside he's visiting, with only a relatively few pages on the battle itself, but is worth the read.

Hook

[dieseltaylor]

Sorry I though I had made another post - which I must have typed and accidentally killed. Mercer's book is available through Amazon and you can read part of it on-line. It is also possible that Google has scanned it, or Project gutenberg has already done it.

Hook is right re the content. What I will do is get to my local shop and look at the Napoleonics - and see wha is duplicated on Amazon etc.!!! OR