HistWar
HistWar (international zone) => Communities => MODs => Discussion démarrée par: Jacquinot le 24 avril 2011, 05:55:47 am
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Hello Nix.
I want ask you one question, it is possible for you to create some historical buildings for Borodino scenario?
1. Create church of "Christmas" in Borodino village - just one eyewitness of Borodino battle now.
2. Change buildings in hamlets and villages on Russian "izba" house.
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Another photo of church of "Christmas" made in 1912 year, you can see hole from French cannonball on the cupola.
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Sorry for the long delay in replying, i just noticed this thread as i was enquiring if anyone had made the borodino church yet! It would be possible to do it, i have a few photographs from google earth of the church from different sides. i have been trying to put together a mini tutorial on modding buildings for Histwar as i have had a few enquiries from Andrea who is trying to making gemincourt farm for quatre bras at the moment. If no one else has done the church yet i may have a go...
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Sorry for the long delay in replying, i just noticed this thread as i was enquiring if anyone had made the borodino church yet! It would be possible to do it, i have a few photographs from google earth of the church from different sides. i have been trying to put together a mini tutorial on modding buildings for Histwar as i have had a few enquiries from Andrea who is trying to making gemincourt farm for quatre bras at the moment. If no one else has done the church yet i may have a go...
I confirm, no one else not done the chourch, only you can do this Nix, it was fantastic if you can do this and maybe you can do some izba house to add in map editor.
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I give it a go then! :D I will make a russian village with the izba houses and the church.
I am still making enquiries about the best way to add new buildings to the list within the game but I guess the same method of substitution used for hougoumont etc will work in the meantime.
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Russian izba at Borodino field in Gorki village where was command point of general Kutuzov, photos make in 1901year.
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Excellent! Thanks for posting the images. Do you know if these were also the sort of dwellings in Borodino village near to the church?
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look here : http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=church+russia&styp=m&reps=6&start=0 (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=church+russia&styp=m&reps=6&start=0)
Sure will find something
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Excellent! Thanks for posting the images. Do you know if these were also the sort of dwellings in Borodino village near to the church?
At #5 you can see church of "Christmas" in Borodino village but in back plan, i think no special buildings around church just izba houses, but i try to find some information.
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I found good Russian plan with Church and izba houses around and don't forget all Russian churches have cemetry yard near church.
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Good stuff, i also found this
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/borodino/bordio3xx.htm
which shows a diorama with the correct church orientation (which is 180deg from that found in the Lordz mod Napoleonic Total War 2.1 Borodino scenario by the way!)
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Good stuff, i also found this
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rushistory/borodino/bordio3xx.htm
which shows a diorama with the correct church orientation (which is 180deg from that found in the Lordz mod Napoleonic Total War 2.1 Borodino scenario by the way!)
This diorama coincide with my map.
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Another great resource for Russian photos from 1912 and in colour
http://prokudin-gorsky.org/card.php?lang=en&photos_id=910
showing the Borodino Church from a distance (looking to the east from the west i think), There are good pictures of typical village buildings around a church too which i have attached from this same resource.
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The 1999 state of the Borodino church differs from 1912 and 2005 (see attached photo) This was the form moddeled by the Lordz modding collective for thier execllent Borodino Scenario in Napoleonic Total War 2.1.
Does any one know what the state was in 1812? Since the stone pillars and woodenwalkways of the 1999 state have now been removed i assume they were later additions. is this so?
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1) Church in 1911year.
2) Church in 1960 year.
3) Church in 1962 year.
4) Church in 2002 year.
As you can see stone pillars and woodenwalkways was build in 1962 at restoration, we don't see them in 1960 and in 1911 and they be removed at restoration in 2002. I try to find information about this, but now i found nothing.
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I found some information -
Church of the Nativity or Smolensk — that was all that remained of the Manor of Borodino. The temple was built of brick in 1698-1701 years deposits votčinnikov Savel′evyh in the Moscow Baroque style and is of type "Octagon House at square". Along with a small dining room and a two-tier belfry of the Church is at high podklet. Along the southern and the Northern facade of the temple once went open wooden galleries, restored only one – South. The temple is closely associated with the war of 1812, orations, and indeed located a few kilometres from the Kolockij monastery.
At Borodino cool in winter and summer, here you can spend the whole day: sightseeing, visiting monasteries and Museum. Here on the boundless field of Russian glory, produvaemom on all sides by the winds, so good, so feel the Russian soul ...
Along the southern and the Northern facade of the temple once went open wooden galleries, restored only one – South
So, looks like this gallerys was destroyed at 1812, but why they was removed at 2002??? :?
First restorations was in 1818 year, but we don't have photos at this period. :(
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Another site -
Brick building built in the style of a slender Moscow Baroque "Octagon House at square" and put on a high podklet, which was arranged in warm ("winter") Sergievskii ' Chapel. To the main četveriku is a small tavern, ending with the West staircase characteristic of temples of the 17th century. Above the upper removable underseat stowage bag stairs is a small (below the heads of the main volume) Bell Tower in one tier. Originally along the southern and Northern facade were wooden open galleries-gul′biŝa; their existence shows laid down now the doors on the facades. The decoration of the temple is quite discreet and elegant outlines further building attached to the airiness and lightness. The finish both floors of the temple – rich carved; Brink uzorčatymi polukolonkami and vos′merika are decorated with a frieze. Light drum under the chapter of the basic volume is rather narrow, oriented vertically aligning them properly, which makes the temple dedication skyward. The apse are not simple vanes, and decorative balusters.
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Thanks for sharing the pics and information- fascinating especially the dammaged pic, i havent seen that one before.
I found a picture from 1912 of the interior, the only one I have seen (attached below).
It seems the Lordz Model was an accurate one (see attachment). It is in the .cas format and I am not sure if I can open it in Truespace and convert it into a .x format model. (That would save me a lot of work making a new model if i could!) I will experiment and see what I can do!
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On the point about the appearence of Borodino village at the time of the battle: I have found two artists (Albrect Adam and Faber du Faur) who were eywitness to the battle. Both were in the Grande Armee and both left interesting pictures drawn just before or just after the action.
Adam's pictures are taken from the French positions looking east and clearly show the destinctive character of the church and a rather shambolic collection of houses.(see pic 1,2,3 below)
Fabre's depiction looking west from the heights on the Gorki road shows clusters of houses decorated with interesting 'horse head' gable decoration, a type of house he also encountered on the road to Moskow and which he illustrated in more detail. (I notice the Lordz mod also included this feature on their houses). (pic 4)
Both artists also recorded the bridge over the Kolotscha
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The remaining pics by Fabre and Adam of the town and the bridge over the Kolotscha
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A bit more research: i found the official website for the Borodino church (in russian) which has pictures of the interior as it is now and a number of the images which have already appeared on this thread. In addition it has a historically interesting image from about 1812 (attached)
http://www.artvuz.ru/Borodino/Borodino_main.htm
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These 1912 pictures a just superb ! :shock:
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You finde many information Nix, good work! I can't wait when i see Church and izba houses in Histwar!!!!! ;)
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Fabre's depiction looking west from the heights on the Gorki road shows clusters of houses decorated with interesting 'horse head' gable decoration, a type of house he also encountered on the road to Moskow and which he illustrated in more detail. (I notice the Lordz mod also included this feature on their houses). (pic 4)
It is easy to understand, in Russian language roof apex translated like konek =small horse.
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Interesting information!
I have been able to construct a plan and elevation of the church from the photo info i have collected. Having done this I have decided to make a new model. It seems the lordz model, nice as it is, has a few deviations from the building proportions and converting it into a Histwar useable model may be difficult anyway. So now I 'll have a go and see what i can do in the modelling program....( I may be gone some time :lol:)
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Interesting information!
I have been able to construct a plan and elevation of the church from the photo info i have collected. Having done this I have decided to make a new model. It seems the lordz model, nice as it is, has a few deviations from the building proportions and converting it into a Histwar useable model may be difficult anyway. So now I 'll have a go and see what i can do in the modelling program....( I may be gone some time :lol:)
I be waiting when you comback!!! :p
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Just a teaser...while trying to fix the proportions of the Church and izba houses for Borodino village I photoshopped the attached montage depicting Borodino Village on the day of battle...(combines Faber and my elevation data). I thought it might amuse...
(we are looking south)
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Just a teaser...while trying to fix the proportions of the Church and izba houses for Borodino village I photoshopped the attached montage depicting Borodino Village on the day of battle...(combines Faber and my elevation data). I thought it might amuse...
(we are looking south)
Good proportions.
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As to the model, there is good news and bad news!
The goodnews :D is i have made the church (see attached pic) and it exports as an .x format file which reads ok in DirectXviewer.
The bad news :evil: is the Hist war map editor doesnt like it. It seems the Histwar program is very sensitive to some aspect of the modelling process. I had a similar problem in the late stages of modelling Hougoumont- as the model became more detailed the likelyhood of the Histwar prog rejecting it increased. The only solution is to systematically go through the stages of building the model to see which bit causes the problem. This can be done by exporting partially finished models to the histwar program to see if they work (Tedious but i will do it...) .
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As to the model, there is good news and bad news!
The goodnews :D is i have made the church (see attached pic) and it exports as an .x format file which reads ok in DirectXviewer.
The bad news :evil: is the Hist war map editor doesnt like it. It seems the Histwar program is very sensitive to some aspect of the modelling process. I had a similar problem in the late stages of modelling Hougoumont- as the model became more detailed the likelyhood of the Histwar prog rejecting it increased. The only solution is to systematically go through the stages of building the model to see which bit causes the problem. This can be done by exporting partially finished models to the histwar program to see if they work (Tedious but i will do it...) .
It's fantastic!!! :shock:
I faith all be fine in map editor!!!
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:cry: I have tried various ways around the problem but the Histwar map editor keeps rejecting my completed models but accepts the partially completed ones. I may have to simplify the model considerably to make it work, which will be a shame. I have asked JMM for advice. In the mean time the untextured completed model can be downloaded in .x format Here:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3191121/finchurch1-x-october-11-2011-9-30-am-294k?da=y
You can view it in DirectXViewer and spin it in 3d. I think I will need to wait for JMM's comments before I can make more progress on this....
:idea: I may in the meantime try a really simplified model where the detail of the porch,steps and under bellfry are not modelled but are just drawn on simple cubic blocks and bump mapped; from a distance they will look the same but will reduce the computation Histwar has to do...
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:idea: I may in the meantime try a really simplified model where the detail of the porch,steps and under bellfry are not modelled but are just drawn on simple cubic blocks and bump mapped; from a distance they will look the same but will reduce the computation Histwar has to do...
If we don't have another way, why not. :|
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:) Well I have discovered what the limit of the program is for complex models. So now I have made some progress! I have produced two models: one of Borodino Village and another of a general village of izba houses. I still have to do some modification to the latter to get some variety into the look of the buildings. The Borodino model is complete but I still have to make the fire dammaged and snow bound skins. In the meantime here are some screenshots from the model in spring LGDN: :D
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Congratulations :!: :!: :!:
A really amazing realisation, so all dreams may come true now, just ask the Wizard ;)
Oster
Ps: What about the Porte de Brandebourg for a défilé in Berlin....or Kremlin in Moscow burning :mrgreen:
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Good work! ;)
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Thanks Nix for your nice work ;)
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Nix you my personal hero!!!
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I finish my Borodino scenario, need to add this buildings on map!!! :p
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Congratulations, Nix. I followed this thread from the beginning.
That's very good work, especially the izba houses for other battles of the Russia's Campaign in 1812.
Théo
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Thanks for the cheers :D.
I have finished two models which have now been tested on the Borodino Map and a number of annoying glitches removed. I will upload them once i have finished the fire dammaged skins (not a big job). They will provide the Town of Borodino (on the Chateaux model base) and a hamlet model to replace the four N.European hamlets currently used...
Some screenshots of the town of Borodino on the satellite battlefield map are shown below. We are approaching up the western slope;the view seen by the attack columns of Eugene...
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...cont:
The French take the town... The eastern approaches of the counterattack...and the view of the town from the Raevsky redoubt
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The Izba hamlet :
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Wonderful Nix.
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A real artist's work , deserving three cheers :lol: :lol: :lol: and a Medal :!:
I hope this will be incorporated in the corpus of HW to be used by everyone without fuss ....
Thanks,
Oster
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After the excellent modding of MadRussian for the units, we have another great modder for the buildings!
I can't wait! ;)
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Fantastic work!!!
But i want to ask, why some of izba house have blue color???
And what map you use to test?
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Hi Jacquinot, good question... the 'blue one is a barn (see photo v1 previously)and should be darker brown/black and is so in my texturemaps. The test of the buildings was on your borodino map which i downloaded some time ago and which i have in the V2g installation of HW. The default gamma for that map and game combination gives very dark screenshots which i have to correct with levels in photoshop. This distorts the colour a bit (hence the blueish tone). It should be ok as the texture map colours are correct.
Ill send you the files tomorrow for you to test out before i put them in the depot.
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Thank you Nix, i be waiting the files!!! :)
You test on this map?
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No i tested on this one with 4 hamlets and 1 borodino
The files for the three models : Borodino, an izba village and an izba hamlet can be downloaded for you to test here:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3209874/borodinomod-zip-october-20-2011-2-04-pm-7-4-meg?da=y
Please read both read me files!
I will be interested to hear if the files slow the program significantly? If they give any problems with your version of HW? Or Map Editor?
Here is a screenshot of the new izba village and a couple of the fire and snow states of Borodino and the hamlet....
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Here is a close up of the izba village.
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Excellent Sir Nix...
I have to understand why the ground is constant for the village.. very curious :p
JMM
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Thanks Nix for your hard work!
Well, i take your files today and adaptet MadRussian Mod for new buildings and my Borodino map for new buildings, so i have some resoult:
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I change ground texture in village on dirt because in Russian villages we still don't have block pavement :p, only dirt or asphalt.
All looks fine but in game one of the houses in Borodino have no roof, but in map editor all looks fine. It is very strange bug!
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Some action
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Looks good with the new ground texture! Which file are you modding for the ground texture?
Interesting that the first screenshot has all buildings present but all the later ones have missing buildings. Are they all in the same GUI or was the first captured in the old GUI?
I notice quite a few buildings have gone missing as well as the roof of the house in the south west corner. I wonder if that is because we have reached some limit on the number of objects which can be rendered by the HistWar engine in the 3d view?
can you post an aerial view which shows all the town? Just to see how many have disappeared.
Is the Village and hamlet ok with your new ground texture, or are there missing bits for those too?
The first screenshot has a nice brightness and contrast for the buildings but the remaining ones look rather too grey compared to the environment: why might that be? I have found that sometimes the bump map can make my buildings too dark. You might try replacing the bump maps 0000B.dds etc with these which I made with an improved technique:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3212300/betterbumps-zip-october-21-2011-1-34-pm-1-2-meg?da=y
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The dissapearing houses in Borodino are the last objects in the list of objects in the file 05.x2. This makes me think they are being dropped when RAM is full (perhaps?).
I f the dissapearence of houses from the 3d view of Borodino is due to limitation of rendering or RAM i may revert to an earlier model in which all the houses in Borodino are of the same, one object, type so that if they dissapear the whole house goes not just a part of it, that way it wont look so bad....
If the problem occurs for the hamlet or village it will be more difficult as most of the houses are two or three object constructions...
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Looks good with the new ground texture! Which file are you modding for the ground texture?
Interesting that the first screenshot has all buildings present but all the later ones have missing buildings. Are they all in the same GUI or was the first captured in the old GUI?
I notice quite a few buildings have gone missing as well as the roof of the house in the south west corner. I wonder if that is because we have reached some limit on the number of objects which can be rendered by the HistWar engine in the 3d view?
can you post an aerial view which shows all the town? Just to see how many have disappeared.
Is the Village and hamlet ok with your new ground texture, or are there missing bits for those too?
The first screenshot has a nice brightness and contrast for the buildings but the remaining ones look rather too grey compared to the environment: why might that be? I have found that sometimes the bump map can make my buildings too dark. You might try replacing the bump maps 0000B.dds etc with these which I made with an improved technique:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3212300/betterbumps-zip-october-21-2011-1-34-pm-1-2-meg?da=y
1) I moding 06B 07B and 05B dds files in T_Base folder.
2) All captures in new GUI but first in map editor.
3) Missing bits only in Borodino.
4) I think only wether and time can change brightness of buildings/
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With new bumpmaps looks better.
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Sturm of Borodino with new bumpmaps
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If you play in 1024 on 768 regime, you can see on one house more. :?
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Nix and Jacquinot... THX a lot for your work...
Possible the problems will not appear in the next version 03b because I have worked on HW after receiving the Nix'original meshes.
JMM
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Nice screenshots!
I have a new alternative model for Borodino with only 1 object houses, so the roof wont dissapear leaving the walls behind. I predict that four houses may disappear compared to the mapeditor view: 2 will go from SE and 2 from SW quadrant ...but i can live with that! we shall see if i am correct...
I have included a new 00000.dds which tones down the brightness of the white walls of the church when the new bump maps are used and a new 13000.dds and 40000.dds which colour corrects the bluish cast on the barn.
All these files are here:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3214231/new-files-zip-october-22-2011-9-08-am-2-9-meg?da=y
could you give them a go and see if they improve things please? Then I think the mod will be ready to release to the world!
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Colors now looks better and no errors! :p
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I correctet ground color in village, what do you think Nix?
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Sturm of Borodino village - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJizTlq7MQ&feature=channel_video_title (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJizTlq7MQ&feature=channel_video_title)
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Splendid :!: Worth a thousand advertising words ....Sales will explode and JMM drive soon a Cadillac !!! *
Seriously: how do you manage to have such a coordinated attack with artillery and infantery on different sides in the same time ?
Do you switch off AI and move each unit in position ?
Oster ;)
*I'm not sure a Cadillac is still a dream car as in my early years :oops:
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Congratulation Jacquinot: Best Histwar video ever!
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Splendid :!: Worth a thousand advertising words ....Sales will explode and JMM drive soon a Cadillac !!! *
Seriously: how do you manage to have such a coordinated attack with artillery and infantery on different sides in the same time ?
Do you switch off AI and move each unit in position ?
Oster ;)
*I'm not sure a Cadillac is still a dream car as in my early years :oops:
All easy, just switch off AI, give to first brigade order to attack and give to seconde brigade order to flank maneuver.
Cadillac? Its very expensive, too much fuell! I drive KIA Sportage 3 and i like it.
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Congratulation Jacquinot: Best Histwar video ever!
Thanks to Nix, that it is possible!!!
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Magnificent !!
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Sturm of Borodino village - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJizTlq7MQ&feature=channel_video_title (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJizTlq7MQ&feature=channel_video_title)
Good video.
But, as you said, to surely get these manoeuvres, we have to switch off AI.
Théo
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I was watching the old Russian film version of War and Peace at the weekend from which I got this screen capture of the recreation of Borodino village and church...
Thought it would be of interest!
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All easy, just switch off AI, give to first brigade order to attack and give to seconde brigade order to flank maneuver.
You mean you set a path of flanking or you give the link order?
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You mean you set a path of flanking or you give the link order?
I give order move to point and after that order to attack.