HistWar

HistWar (international zone) => Communities => MODs => Discussion démarrée par: Alfiere le 25 février 2011, 19:38:17 pm

Titre: Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 25 février 2011, 19:38:17 pm
What do you think ?
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 25 février 2011, 19:43:03 pm
What do you think ?

Im jocking about 3rd position :D

Im vote for 600m
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 25 février 2011, 19:45:27 pm
Jacquinot ,you have to vote.
Otherwise i win   :D
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 25 février 2011, 19:48:23 pm
Now , it is a draw. :|
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 25 février 2011, 19:51:12 pm
Now , it is a draw. :|
I think 3rd position must win :D
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: bibouba le 25 février 2011, 22:43:58 pm
Can't be at la Haye Sainte there were british troops just there in "la sabiere" (sandy ground).
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 26 février 2011, 12:00:54 pm
Making a poll or having an election is no way to establish historic facts !

History is a science, not democracy !

(http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er/images/GrandeBatterie.jpg)

It is very well explained in Mark Adkin Waterloo Companion p.295.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 26 février 2011, 12:13:38 pm
From the rigde (I suppose you consider that to be the enemy lines) to the Grande Battery ridge gives approximately 650 m, but that is already more than 300 m from the Haie Sainte.

So the question is totally wrong and it doesn't make sense answering to it !

Haie-Sainte can be considered "enemy line" too, since it was occupied.

1000 m is +/- the road from Belle-Alliance to Papelotte and is too far back.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 26 février 2011, 14:27:20 pm
Making a poll or having an election is no way to establish historic facts

Yes is true,but only to  take a joint decision for making a deploy of GB for all partecipants to discussion.

It is good continue to discuss, but you have also to reply cogently to weak points of Frédéric and mine.
We wait your reply to continue discussion.We learn always new things.
Hello DominiqueT
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 26 février 2011, 14:34:00 pm
From the rigde (I suppose you consider that to be the enemy lines) to the Grande Battery ridge gives approximately 650 m, but that is already more than 300 m from the Haie Sainte.

So the question is totally wrong and it doesn't make sense answering to it !

Haie-Sainte can be considered "enemy line" too, since it was occupied.

1000 m is +/- the road from Belle-Alliance to Papelotte and is too far back.

Dominique please vote for 600m :D
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 26 février 2011, 14:35:40 pm
Can't be at la Haye Sainte there were british troops just there in "la sabiere" (sandy ground).

Alfiere mean La Haye Sainte ridge. Are you voting?
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 26 février 2011, 14:41:52 pm
Yes , i already voted.
It is a strong fight decide how deploy GB.
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 26 février 2011, 17:59:10 pm
Dominique please vote for 600m :D
That's what I've just done.

In fact, it's the name "Haie-Sainte" that bothered me.
If thant means the "Haie-Sainte rigde", even if it's not really a ridge and nobody ever used that name, that is surely closer to reality.
The reason why so many people put the Grande Batterie so far to the back, is that the 6th Regt Artillery was placed there around 11.30 , but it was moved forward around 1200 - 1.00 pm.
So many maps, showing the positions at the beginning of the battle, show the artillery at that position (just NE of Belle Alliance).
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 26 février 2011, 18:04:52 pm
(http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er/images/AFEW6AiePANO.jpg)
Here you can so the monunment to the 6e d'Artillerie, but even this is too far south (number 4 on the Google map above)

You can also see that there is no real "ridge", only an ondulating landscape.

http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er/1815AFEW.htm#6Aie (http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er/1815AFEW.htm#6Aie)
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 26 février 2011, 18:26:46 pm
Now that i see the profile,begins to like.

But why low damage at 800 mt from opposite road ?
I do not know where start exacty enemy line.
 
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: vonJaeger le 26 février 2011, 23:53:59 pm
In my understanding the Grand Battery was just N of La Belle alliance streching east across the ridge, although was probably more of a line of individual batteries. Then it moved forward slightly to support d'Erlon as the Grand battery, then parts of it moved forward to the ridge east of La Haye Saint when the farm was taken but i wouldnt call it a Grand battery at that time, so ill go for all three :).
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 27 février 2011, 11:55:56 am
But why low damage at 800 mt from opposite road ?

Because:
1) the ground was very wet (mud) and it was impossible to make the cannonballs bounce.
That's also the mean reason why the battle began so late.
2) the enemy was on the reverse slope.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 27 février 2011, 12:06:32 pm
http://www.histwar.org/forum/index.php/topic,5604.msg76735.html#msg76735

There is a interesting site , posted from  vonJaeger, that explain start deploy of GB.
thank vonJaeger.
I think this is right.
I understand start deploy near d'Erlon corp.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: vonJaeger le 27 février 2011, 13:17:04 pm
I think that is the position that is most likely. According to the letters from several cavalry officers they came under fire from guns on the "enemy ridge" when charging d'Erlons Corps. One would assume this is the ridge at La Belle Alliance. It is not however unreasonable to suggest that several batteries may of joined d'Erlons attack. But for the sake of a Grand Battery it would of been further back.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 29 mars 2011, 12:10:37 pm
I went on the spot last Saturday to make some pictures from the place where the Grande Batterie was.

I'm nearly sure now it was closer to the Haie-Sainte than what most people think.

The reason for this is that if the battery had been near Belle-Alliance, the crest on which it in reality stood would nearly have blocked the shots towards the allied ridge. For that reason, the battery HAD to advance.

(http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er\images\GdeBattPANO1.jpg)

(http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er\images\GdeBattPANO2.jpg)

For a more detailed view :

http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1er/1815AFEW.htm#GdeBatt
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: nix le 29 mars 2011, 12:13:53 pm
Nice photos! Check out the Histwar 6km map in the depot you can compare the ridges with these photos and fly around in 3d!
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 29 mars 2011, 12:55:14 pm

But why low damage at 800 mt from opposite road ?
 
Because the enemy was BEHIND the ridge.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 29 mars 2011, 15:34:49 pm
Yes is true,but some doubt remain.

Very nice photos DominiqueT .
I understand something more now.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 29 mars 2011, 16:03:39 pm
Thanks for this photos, im agree with you 100%.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: thilio le 29 mars 2011, 19:40:41 pm
Thanks DominiqueT for these nice pics.
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 01 avril 2011, 11:29:49 am
I went on the spot last Saturday to make some pictures from the place where the Grande Batterie was.

I'm nearly sure now it was closer to the Haie-Sainte than what most people think.

The reason for this is that if the battery had been near Belle-Alliance, the crest on which it in reality stood would nearly have blocked the shots towards the allied ridge. For that reason, the battery HAD to advance.



taken  from nix satellite 6 km map with factor 1.8
pic 1 from road Belle Alliance
pic 2 more advance of road (perhaps better more advance)

Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 01 avril 2011, 17:44:07 pm
Nice !

But what are those mountains on the horizon ? There's nothing like that in Belgium.  :shock: :shock: :shock:

I know you can't do anything about it, but knowing our "plat pays" (flat country), it's a bit funny.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 02 mai 2011, 12:15:59 pm
D'Erlon attack.
Perhaps is better use 6km nix map,for screen step by step.(there is more rooms)

some pics (map 10 km)
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 02 mai 2011, 20:26:16 pm
Nice !

But what are those mountains on the horizon ? There's nothing like that in Belgium.  :shock: :shock: :shock:

I know you can't do anything about it, but knowing our "plat pays" (flat country), it's a bit funny.

Much more funny this  mountains looks at flat Borodino field :D
Titre: Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 02 mai 2011, 20:33:24 pm
D'Erlon attack.
Perhaps is better use 6km nix map,for screen step by step.(there is more rooms)

some pics (map 10 km)

Your screens looks different? New MOD?
Alf you play Waterloo with RC6 patch?
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 02 mai 2011, 20:53:39 pm
Your screens looks different? New MOD?
Alf you play Waterloo with RC6 patch?

New Mod ? i think of not (perhaps some confusion,with many MODS)

why is different ?

Rc6 patch yes
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 02 mai 2011, 20:56:23 pm
New Mod ? i think of not (perhaps some confusion,with many MODS)

because is different ?

Rc6 patch yes

Your last screens looks like you install MadRussian data.txt file :D
How you play with new patch?
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 02 mai 2011, 21:02:02 pm
Seems better,but for now i am played not much.
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 03 mai 2011, 17:13:13 pm
first shots of Erlon (51° french regiment)  against  (95° inf english)
immortal screenshots     :roll:
Perhaps not the first but ....almost
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: thilio le 03 mai 2011, 21:53:08 pm
Not exactly the topic but it would be nice to have some improvement on the waterloo map like the sandpit, the hurdles ("barricades") on the road in front of La Haye Sainte and behind Hougoumont, the ravine and bushes along the Ohain road.
Maybe someone familiar with map editor can add this features if they are available in the game?
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Alfiere le 04 mai 2011, 09:59:34 am
Maybe........
And why not also the large elm solitary?
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: Jacquinot le 19 mai 2011, 20:36:35 pm
Waterloo - grande battery view - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLZwjxMOV4E
Titre: Re : Where was Grand Battery at Waterloo ?
Posté par: DominiqueT le 19 mai 2011, 22:12:30 pm
Nice video, but I couldn't stand the music !