HistWar
HistWar (English zone) => General discussions => Discussion démarrée par: Jacquinot le 23 janvier 2011, 20:52:54 pm
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Hello everybody.
Im play Austerlitz on satellite map with historical deployment and orders close to history, but cant crush Russian-Austian army in the centre. I dont know why, watch my replay maybe im do something wrong?
http://www.histwar.org/mods/file.php?id=122
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Result draw? If center is safe is impossible a draw.
With orders of Weyrother and Napoleon?
For me Allied must break through at Tenitz and continue in circumventing,it is too weak the french right .
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Result draw? If center is safe is impossible a draw.
With orders of Weyrother and Napoleon?
For me Allied must break through at Tenitz and continue in circumventing,it is too weak the french right .
Yes with orders of Weyrother and Napoleon, but Bagration, Kolowrat and Russian guard stay very strong and dont give up. I think in reality the reason of defeat was in very bad command of Coalition Army.
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Yes,this is history.
But i am speaking of your simulation,with historical deployment and historical orders.
You have played in solo mode both side? with some problems?
Talking about exactly what problems.
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Yes,this is history.
But i am speaking of your simulation,with historical deployment and historical orders.
You have played in solo mode both side? with some problems?
Talking about exactly what problems.
Yes of course in solo with command of both sides. Im send 1st, 2nd and 3rd columns to sturm Sokolnitz and Telnitz, Friant and Legran be under attack, and at 10.oo when Kolowrat 4th column go to support 1,2 and 3th columns, i send all main French forces to attack the Pratzen hills, im attack Bagration, Kolowrat, Lechtenstein and Russian gurd, but cant break the centre.
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Interesting.
And Sokolnitz and Telnitz not break through for to finish a draw.?
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Interesting.
And Sokolnitz and Telnitz not break through for to finish a draw.?
Friant and Legran was defeatet and retreat from Sokolnitz and Telnitz
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The grand asault and draw:
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I thought at some problem of Map or OOB.
Napo had created a great flank attack and great confusion on Pratzen,much better than LG can simulate.
I was curious to know if with break through of Sokolnitz and Telnitz then the allied continue to advance and circumvent Napo, but probabily this was not present in historical orders.
Very good and very interesting Jacquinot.
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I thought at some problem of Map or OOB.
Napo had created a great flank attack and great confusion on Pratzen,much better than LG can simulate.
I was curious to know if with break through of Sokolnitz and Telnitz then the allied continue to advance and circumvent Napo, but probabily this was not present in historical orders.
Very good and very interesting Jacquinot.
Why not maybe it was possible if Coalition Army have one good commander but not 2 stupid Emperors. :D I think if Kolowrat column go down the hill to Sokolnitz the centre will be crushed.
And i think Bonaparte was a real lucky man, i remembre Marengo if Desaix dont come the battle would be lost.
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Yes , at Marengo Napo was very, very lucky.
But Austerlitz was great victory well deserved.
Shows to enemy a weak right for to attack at center , battle well prepared and well performed.
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I think last question and then stop.
How many ceh for allied and french have you used for OOB?
And add what is the next battle that do you want simulate with historical deployment and orders?
Please next time upload the files on Histwar depot if is possible,i think for you there is not difference.
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I think last question and then stop.
How many ceh for allied and french have you used for OOB?
And add what is the next battle that do you want simulate with historical deployment and orders?
Please next time upload the files on Histwar depot if is possible,i think for you there is not difference.
All my save files in depot, im played two battles with historical(close to histori) orders its Borodino and Austerlitz, in Borodino battle i have historical resoult - draw, but French casualtys rate was more than Russian and in Austerlitz i cant get historical result.
And im use original JMMs OOB with my deployment.
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Hi Jacquinot
I try to start with your initial deployment downloaded by depot.
I want try to make history, maybe with your help and my books (Chandler + Langeron),with only some screenshots of the battle and what can see the Generals with FOW in different placement.
Difficult work , but my intent is to proceed very slowly.
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All this only for curiosity.
Setting season spring and Hot and dry (the 2 of december was a beautiful day) and at 6.00 Napoleon can see some troops of Langeron while Alexander can see nothing (only a battery of guns).
Napoleon is put on 39 meters high,a bit back there is also 44 meter relative high.
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Weyrother plan and and starting deployment reading Langeron book.
(sorry for english)
Bagration must maintain startin position.
Liechtenstein position between Krub ? and Schlapanitz ? for one side and the two sides of the big road ?
First column Doctorov from Aujest unitl Telnitz
Second Langeron advance to sokolnitz and Telnitz
Third Pribischewski-Wimpfen advance near the castle of Sokolnitz
Fourth Kollowrath-Miloradovitch advance to Schlapanitz
I do not know where was Krub , Dwaroschna heighs,Latin,Lesch
....(continue,i must read the book)
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1)In the night Napo made big movements of INF , probabily St Hilaire and Vandamme between Puntowitz and Pratzen,
but well-hidden.
Then in the starting deployment must move St Hilaire and Vandamme.
2)Langeron wrote that at 6.00 saw Liechtenstein at Pratzen village very close to me.
Then is confirmed that Langeron was at Pratzen village how Jacquinot deployment but Liechtenstein is a bit more
in advance.
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Hi Alfiere!
Please write in detail what do you think we need to change in deployment.
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If im understand wright we need to change deployment of: 1) Vandamm and St Hilare divisions, 2) Napoleon command post 3) Dokhturov and Prebyshevsky corps.
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Hi Jacquinot
Perhaps is better wait a moment maybe other informations.
The deployment is very good but i am noticed these informations.
1)St Hilaire and Vandamme between Puntowitz and Pratzen but nearest Puntowitz (night movements).
2)Liechtenstein cav a bit in advance,near Langeron.
3)Seems to me that First column Doctorov should be to north to Aujest,but not much.
Then I want come back Napo of about 200-300 meter where releative highs is 44 meters.
only for to control what can see Napo at 6.00 in the morning.(for curiosity diffrence between 39 and 44 meters)
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Done deployment.
Napo at 44 mt can see more troops at 6.00 in the morning.
Alex can see only some Lannes troops .
it's all theoretical but with satellite map is possible to know something more for curiosity.
I notice that something wrong.
Is the view not at 6.00 but later.
I delete pic , the right view in the next pic.
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Austerlitz from 6 to 7 hours.
Fog
1)Orders (French)
Bernadotte move to Girschlowitz and Puntovitz for to attack Blasowitz.
Lannes orders to defend Santon,Murat move on the right of Lannes.
Davout in march to Telnitz.
1)Orders (Allied)
Kienmayer move against Legrand (first fights at 7 hours) , follow by Doctorov with delay of 1 hours.
Hi Jacquinot , try together with these orders until 7 , taking some screenshots or not ? (it is very complex follow step by step,hour for hour the orders of battle) .For to see if at then end is still a draw. What do you think?
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Austerlitz from 6 to 7 hours.
Fog
1)Orders (French)
(Chandler) Bernadotte move to Girschlowitz and Puntovitz for to attack Blasowitz.
(Chandler) Lannes orders to defend Santon,Murat move on the right of Lannes.
(Chandler)Davout in march to Telnitz.
1)Orders (Allied)
(Chandler) Kienmayer move against Legrand (first fights at 7 hours) , follow by Doctorov with delay of 1 hours.
Hi Jacquinot , try together with these orders until 7 , taking some screenshots or not ? (it is very complex follow step by step,hour for hour the orders of battle) .For to see if at then end is still a draw. What do you think?
Ok, im try to play. Or we can play in multiplay with you in sunnday?
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I want to say try together in solo mode, play in solo a hour,then i found other orders reading book and continue next hour and so on.
So is historical battle with little AAR of only screenshot and little explanation every hour,also for to see if the final result is the same,with the same orders.(taking some interesting screenshots to post on this forum )
I do not know is only idea , but is also difficult.
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I want to say try together in solo mode, play in solo a hour,then i found other orders reading book and continue next hour and so on.
So is historical battle with little AAR of only screenshot and little explanation every hour,also for to see if the final result is the same,with the same orders.(taking some interesting screenshots to post on this forum )
I do not know is only idea , but is also difficult.
Ok lets try.
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In practice (proceeding very slow)
I post orders found on my books on forum, hours by hours.
We talking about on orders and discuss how proceed,maybe other help on forum.
Then i play in solo mode both side and giving orders for french and allied ,and at the end of 1 hours saved game.
You also.
Then post on forum screenshots and what happens in game in that hour .
and repeat until end.
example of post
Austerlitz from 6. to 7 hours.
list of orders etc
Austerlitz from 7 to 8.
..............etc
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In practice (proceeding very slow)
I post orders found on my books on forum, hours by hours.
We talking about on orders and discuss how proceed,maybe other help on forum.
Then i play in solo mode both side and giving orders for french and allied ,and at the end of 1 hours saved game.
You also.
Then post on forum screenshots and what happens in game in that hour .
and repeat until end.
example of post
Austerlitz from 6. to 7 hours.
list of orders etc
Austerlitz from 7 to 8.
..............etc
And in what season we should play, winter or atum? Hot and dry or fogy
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I think in Autumn , hot and dry.
The 2 dicember was a beautiful day , only fog in the morning until 8 hours.(i think low fog)
The end of battle for map is better modify to 20 hours also probabily end before.
If is too much difficult proceed ,stop.
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I think in Autumn , hot and dry.
The 2 dicember was a beautiful day , only fog in the morning until 8 hours.(i think low fog)
2 deicember is new style, in old style it was atumn
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at 6 to 7 am
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Now post screenshots of my orders and proceed until 7.
I have set start from 6.00 duration 14 hours.
You make the same or similar.Stop the game at 7.00
Now i must read for orders from 7 to 8 hours.
Take a break
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I send similar orders like you
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I have installed last patch.
Austerlitz positions at 7 o'clock
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Austerlitz orders from 7 to 8
Sunrise
1)Orders (allied)
Langeron march in directions to Sokolnitz.
Liechtenstein in wrong position march to location specified in the plans (behind Langeron) cutting march of Langeron and also of Pribischewski causing to both a delay of 1 hour.(confusion)
Pribischewski March to Sokolnitz on the right of Langeron.
Doctorov attack Telnitz.
Miloradovich march also to Sokolnitz.
2)Orders (french)
nothing , but i must find the placement of St Hilarie and Vandamme for to move them.
When Napo ask to Soult how many time to reach th Pratzen , Soult reply 20 minutes (must calc the distance)
The attack of St Hilaire and Vandamme on Pratzen depends from position of Miloradoch,when him arrives on village of Pratzen the french attack is already started,the french must be already near the village.(is not possible establish a time,but certainly after the 8 )
It is necessary some calculations.
Hi Jacquinot.
I make a copy every hour of sav file,because if something wrong is not necessary restart all,but only from last file right.
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Calculations.
Give order to Miloradovich at 7 o'clock and reach Patzen after 70 minutes=8.10
Give order to Pribi... " and rech position or more after 70 minute =8.10
Give order to Langeron " " or more with some problems of Liechtestaein ?
Must give to Vandamme and St Hilaire to reach Pratzen at 8.10 - 36 minutes =about 7.30 for own starting position.(not after 8 o'clock)
Try so.
Riassuming orders
All orders for allied at 7 o'clock
Order for french (St Hilaire + Vandamme) at 7.30 to attack Pratzen.
Now make a pic for orders to give at 7 o'clock the next post.
Take a break
Jacquinot do you agree or do you want play some variant ?
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Im agree
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ok
These orders to give for allied and french.
All orders for allied at 7 o'clock.
Wait at 7.30 for french.
Tomorrow continue with situation at 8 o'clock.
Hello
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ok
These orders to give for allied and french.
All orders for allied at 7 o'clock.
Wait at 7.30 for french.
Tomorrow continue with situation at 8 o'clock.
Hello
OMG im forget give order to Miloradovich, please send to me your save file :(
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sent
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sent
Thanks im get it
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Is not very good.
All too soon.
I follow the action until 8,but for Vandamme and ST Hilaire must resume progression,Milarodovich reach Pratzen before.
For Kyenmayer and Doctorov is necessary more deep attack, no fight.
Bernadotte is too late when Vandamme and ST Hilaire attack ,Bernadotte must attack Blasowitz.
I think is better give orders for allied at least at 7.30 and for Vandamme & c at 8.00,also orders to Bernadotte for Blasovitz.
In addition Kutosov surprise on Pratzen change direction for Milarodovich.(Chandler)
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My disposition on 8.00
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It is little different with mine.
Tomorrow post and talk together.
Hello
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Situation at 8.
It is not very right but enough .
It is very difficult continue to simulate with historical orders.
For me now is better starting from this file a make a battle, i against you, for to see if at end is a draw.
I french and you allied.
I play for 15 minutes with french, send to you the file and you play for 15 minutes with allied and so on until end.
We can play free battle with starting historical (situation at 8 o'clock).
What do you think?
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Situation at 8.
It is not very right but enough .
It is very difficult continue to simulate with historical orders.
For me now is better starting from this file a make a battle, i against you, for to see if at end is a draw.
I french and you allied.
I play for 15 minutes with french, send to you the file and you play for 15 minutes with allied and so on until end.
We can play free battle with starting historical (situation at 8 o'clock).
What do you think?
Agree, when?
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Tomorrow ?
Our is not a challenge only a curiosity.
Only advice is decrease speed at 20/60 because is easy play more of 15 minutes.(1 or 2 minutes more is not rilevant)
Rememer to put the file into save/bataille.
Tomorrow i send to you the file where i have already played my 15 minutes.
Wait and see how end Austerlitz.
Hello
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Tomorrow ?
Our is not a challenge only a curiosity.
Only advice is decrease speed at 20/60 because is easy play more of 15 minutes.(1 or 2 minutes more is not rilevant)
Rememer to put the file into save/bataille.
Tomorrow i send to you the file where i have already played my 15 minutes.
Wait and see how end Austerlitz.
Hello
Ok, tomorrow, but in wich hour?
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I send to you the file 8 or 9 o'clock (uk time) in the mornig and you reply when you want.
I am free to reply with no problem also 3-4 turns for day or less , how you want.
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I send to you the file 8 or 9 o'clock (uk time) in the mornig and you reply when you want.
I am free to reply with no problems.(not busy) also 3-4 turns for day or less , how you want.
You are happy man, im chief superintendent engineer work at 8.00 to 17.00 sometimes to 19.00, sometimes i hate my job. :D I come home at 18.00(Moscow time) i think and will play.
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Yes you are right.
I play a little simulation , is very difficult battle at 10.30 (french losses 13% allied losses 13%) starting on situation at 8.00.
without give orders to allied only orders for french !!!
I sent to you the file,i played 15 minutes.
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My orders enough similar historical
Oudinot attack to engage Langeron
Bernadotte support ST.H and Vand... but in defence (instead of attack Blasowitz)
Songis support St.H and Vand..
Davout defence Telnitz
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8.15 - 8.30 alied action
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Situation 9.15
Jacquinot with Langeron and Pribischewski attack Sokolnitz.
The french with Oudinot and Bessieres try to engage on flank.
But take a break.
All Soult troops on Sokolnitz are detach units.
Is not better make 4 corps for Soult for maneuverability?
How Songis (ART)
1)Songis (ART)
2)ST.Hilaire
3)Vandamme
4)Soult (Sokolnitz)
Another question for me is better take a look at OOB.
Langeron troops seems elite , also for Pribischewski.
Langeron say on his book that own troops are never fight , only one had fight.(i do not remember name).
Is not possible that are Elite.
Remember that this is not a challenge,my main intent is simulate Austerlitz battle more close to historical possible with help of Jacquinot that seem also him very interested.(Better was Jacquinot that start with this intent)
For now continue battle (that is after 8 o'clock a variant ) but is need some changes.
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Hello Alfiere!
1) Do you think better attach Legran division and Songis artelery to Sult? But we lost control of this corps if we do this.
2) Langeron corps include generally grenadire regiments, in Rusian army grenadires regiments was allways elite like in other armies.
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1)For me is better 4 symbolic corps.
This OOB Langeron (from his book)
8°Reggiments hunters (3 battallions)
Musketeers of Wibourg (3 batt..)
Perm (3 batt)
Koursk (3 batt)
Rhiasky (3 batt)
Granadiers of Fanagori (3 batt)
30 guns
cav
2 squad..(San Pietroburgo reggiment)
1 squad..(Issaev regg..)
Company Pioneers of Berg
now search who had already fight.
I must reread many pages , when i find update here
Hello Jacquinot
8° Reggiments hunters (3 battallions) had already fight.
then say - In the other regiments not more of 500 men had already fight in battle.
Hunters? You mean Jagers? Jagers=Voltigeurs in French army.
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I do not know.
Google translate so (italian to english)
synonymous
men that shots to ...(birds,foxes,lions etc) in the forest.
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I do not know.
Google translate so (italian to english)
synonymous
men that shots to ...(birds,foxes,lions etc) in the forest.
Yes jagers its hunters in German language, but it means sharpshooters.
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Heavy Alfiere (french) defeat against Jacquinot.
Well played says Napo to Alexander.
In my defence say.
For me is not possible that french Guard and Oudinot do not succeed to block Langeron and Pribischewski and defeat them.
Is difficult move Soult corp (all detatched) at Sokolnitz.
here I say and here deny it.
I leave a few comments on battle to Jacquinot.
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Heavy Alfiere (french) defeat against Jacquinot.
Well played says Napo to Alexander.
In my defence say.
For me is not possible that french Guard and Oudinot do not succeed to block Langeron and Pribischewski and defeat them.
Is difficult move Soult corp (all detatched) at Sokolnitz.
here I say and here deny it.
I leave a few comments on battle to Jacquinot.
I think the key to win the battle for French is defeat the Kolowrat-Miloradovich column, take Pratzen hills replaced arillery on hills and compel Alied to counterattack. What do you think Alfiere?
P.S. And to defeat Kolowrat-Miloradovich you need attack them when they on march.
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Yes , the main target is that you say.
But there is also a big problem of Langeron and Pribischewski.
We have make a historical battle until 8 o'clok.
Napo wait that the 2 columns go down from Pratzen to attack Milarodovich.
For Napo this should to be a advantage for him.
Because
1)Was confident that the defence to Solkonitz was good.
We have to think to goldbach a torrent with little bridges for to cross it (zone easy to defende)
2)Surprise on Pratzen for Miloradovich.
In our battle Sokolnitz is not a zone easy to defend , in addition Soult corp here is all detached and not good to maneuver in defense.
If Langeron and Pribischewski take Sokolnitz early, take also LOP and the battle is end.
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Yes , the main target is that you say.
But there is also a big problem of Langeron and Pribischewski.
We have make a historical battle until 8 o'clok.
Napo wait that the 2 columns go down from Pratzen to attack Milarodovich.
For Napo this should to be a advantage for him.
Because
1)Was confident that the defence to Solkonitz was good.
We have to think to goldbach a torrent with little bridges for to cross it (zone easy to defende)
2)Surprise on Pratzen for Miloradovich.
In our battle Sokolnitz is not a zone easy to defend , in addition Soult corp here is all detached and not good to maneuver in defense.
If Langeron and Pribischewski take Sokolnitz early, take also LOP and the battle is end.
I think Davout and Legran defend good in Sokolnitz and Telnitz until 11.00, main problem to defeat Kolowrat-Miloradovich, when you attack 4th column i give order to Miloradovich to defend line, maybe if im order to continue the march you will defeat him.
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Yes , also this is true.
In history Miloradovich surprise invert march and do not defende and probabily with low moral,while you defende position.
But if Sokolnitz after 11.00 falls , then LOP is taken and all is lost.
So i must move Guard and can not use it for counterattack allied.
The problem is that guard do not defeat early the 2 columns because are elite(for me is not right.)
However we have played a variant of Austerlitz.
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Yes , also this is true.
In history Miloradovich surprise invert march and do not defende and probabily with low moral,while you defende position.
But if Sokolnitz after 11.00 falls , then LOP is taken and all is lost.
So i must move Guard and can not use it for counterattack allied.
The problem is that guard do not defeat early the 2 columns because are elite(for me is not right.)
However we have played a variant of Austerlitz.
About 2nd column i think point is that commander of 1st 2nd and 3th column was general Buxowden who was realy bad commander, i think if i do not large assault on Soklnitze and Telnitze but attack column after column like him and not counterattack the guard i think left wing would be broken.
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Summary - I think Napoleon owes his victory to mistakes of Russian and Austria generals and low moral level of Coalition army.
With high moral and with good orders Napoleon would be crushed like in our variant.
P.S. For me i cant understand one thing - how Miloradovich and Kolowrat cant see 50.000 frenchmans coming up on hill and do nothing to organize defence.
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I'd like to repeat this battle (hoping there is not a all retreat movements how this time)
but with some changes,maybe wait 2 weeks.
4 symbolic corps for Soult.
LOP on the left of french (direction of Brunn)
use orendel OOB of Austerlitz.(119ceh vs 144ceh)
starting a Solo Mode Both side with the same situation at 8 o'clock (historical) of our battle.
Every hours i make a copy of sav file with the time,so if we have to repeat some action is more easy start with right file.
Next time i want to try with Bernadotte that attack Blasowith (how history),for support Vandamme and St,Hilaire and make a diversion,but i think very difficult , but will be exactly how history.
But for your side Miloradovich must invert the march at the first contact on Pratzen and do not defend.
Our is not a challenge only a attempt of simulation.
What do you think ?
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Summary - I think Napoleon owes his victory to mistakes of Russian and Austria generals and low moral level of Coalition army.
With high moral and with good orders Napoleon would be crushed like in our variant.
P.S. For me i cant understand one thing - how Miloradovich and Kolowrat cant see 50.000 frenchmans coming up on hill and do nothing to organize defence.
Did you have fog in your battle?
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No , we have set hot and dry.
Fog historical only from 6 to 8 o'clock.
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This is Soult corp of Orendel OOB
I want make 3 symbolic corps. ST.Hilaire,Vandamme and Soult at Sokolnitz
Soult Corps IV
....Division Legrand
....Brigade Brouard
....Hulot........................ Btn des Tirailleurs du Pô................ Infantrymen: 602 * Battalions: 1
....Brigade Levasseur
....Pouget....................... 26 me Rgt d'Infanterie Légère............ Infantrymen: 1205 * Battalions: 2
....Brigade Merle
....Schobert..................... 3/18/75 RdILi............................ Infantrymen: 3614 * Battalions: 6
........D'Aboville................... 1 Artillerie à Pied Cnie................. 12_Pounders: 8 Howitzers : 4
....Division Margaron
........Bessières.................... 11/26 ChaCh.............................. Cavalrymen : 854 * Squadrons : 6
........Laborde...................... 8 me Régiment de Hussards................ Cavalrymen : 427 * Squadrons : 3
....Division St Hilaire
....Brigade Morand
....Mazas........................ 14/36 RIdLI.............................. Infantrymen: 2410 * Battalions: 4
....Brigade Thiebault
....Pouzet....................... 10 me Rgt d'Infanterie Légère............ Infantrymen: 1205 * Battalions: 2
....Brigade Varez
....Lemarois..................... 43/55 RIdLI.............................. Infantrymen: 2410 * Battalions: 4
........D'Aboville................... 1 Artillerie à Pied Cnie................. 12_Pounders: 8 Howitzers : 4
....Division Suchet
....Brigade Becker
....Dejean....................... 34/40 RdILi.............................. Infantrymen: 2410 * Battalions: 4
....Brigade Claparede
....Curial....................... 88 me Rgt d'Infanterie de Lign........... Infantrymen: 1807 * Battalions: 3
....Brigade Valhubert
....Nérin........................ 64 me Rgt d'Infanterie de Lign........... Infantrymen: 1807 * Battalions: 3
........D'Aboville................... 1 Artillerie à Pied Cnie................. 12_Pounders: 8 Howitzers : 4
....Division Vandamme
....Brigade Caudras
....Latrille de Lorencez......... 46/57 RdILi.............................. Infantrymen: 2410 * Battalions: 4
....Brigade Ferrey
....Bonaparte Joseph............. 4/28 RdILi............................... Infantrymen: 2410 * Battalions: 4
....Brigade Schinner
....Marion....................... 24 me Rgt d'Infanterie Légère............ Infantrymen: 1205 * Battalions: 2
........D'Aboville................... 1 Artillerie à Pied Cnie................. 12_Pounders: 8 Howitzers : 4
Strength:25640 * Guns: 48 Infantrymen:23495 * Battalions: 39 Cavalrymen : 1281 * Squadrons : 9
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This all , only strength for some considering.
1)About 12000 men of ST.Hilaire and Vandamme against 17000 of Miloradovich and Kollowrath
2) Soult at Sokolnitz +Imperial french Guard Strength: 12000 + 2945 against II and III Column ->Strength (10915+8716)
3)Davout 11680 at Telnitz against Dokhturov+Kutusov 6700+13880
4)Lannes+Bernadotte+Murat (8802+7128+12368) against Bagration+Constantine+Lictenstein (13348+10258+5703)
Only Napo can make a great victory.
@Jacquinot for me is better read a book instead to simulate a similar battle next time with hope to win.(mission impossible)
HistWar : Order Of Battle Editor
Austerlitz119x144 Year 1805
*** Napoléon I Army ***
Mortier Imperial Guard
Strength: 2945 * Guns: 12 Infantrymen: 1806 * Battalions: 3 Cavalrymen : 907 * Squadrons : 7
Bernadotte Corps I
Strength: 7128 * Guns: 36 Infantrymen: 4820 * Battalions: 8 Cavalrymen : 1708 * Squadrons : 12
Davout Corps III
Strength:11680 * Guns: 24 Infantrymen:10845 * Battalions: 18 Cavalrymen : 427 * Squadrons : 3
Soult Corps IV
Strength:25640 * Guns: 48 Infantrymen:23495 * Battalions: 39 Cavalrymen : 1281 * Squadrons : 9
Lannes Corps V
Strength: 8802 * Guns: 18 Infantrymen: 7229 * Battalions: 12 Cavalrymen : 1281 * Squadrons : 9
Murat Corps VI
Strength:12368 * Guns: 60 Infantrymen: 1807 * Battalions: 3 Cavalrymen : 9609 * Squadrons : 69
Total
Strength:68563 * Guns:198 Infantrymen:50002 * Battalions: 83 Cavalrymen :15213 * Squadrons :109
*** Alexander I Army ***
Kutusov Avantgarde
Strength: 6693 * Guns: 24 Infantrymen: 3360 * Battalions: 5 Cavalrymen : 2941 * Squadrons : 21
Dokhturov Column I
Strength:13880 * Guns: 22 Infantrymen:13504 * Battalions: 24 Cavalrymen : 0 * Squadrons : 0
Langeron Column II
Strength:10915 * Guns: 12 Infantrymen:10699 * Battalions: 17 Cavalrymen : 0 * Squadrons : 0
Prebyshevsky Column III
Strength: 8716 * Guns: 12 Infantrymen: 8000 * Battalions: 16 Cavalrymen : 500 * Squadrons : 4
Miloradovitch Column IV
Strength: 7308 * Guns: 46 Infantrymen: 6500 * Battalions: 12 Cavalrymen : 0 * Squadrons : 0
Kolowrat Krakowsky Austrians
Strength:10825 * Guns: 12 Infantrymen:10653 * Battalions: 16 Cavalrymen : 0 * Squadrons : 0
Liechtenstein Cavalry
Strength: 5703 * Guns: 16 Infantrymen: 0 * Battalions: 0 Cavalrymen : 5439 * Squadrons : 41
Bagration Right Wing
Strength:13348 * Guns: 20 Infantrymen: 8500 * Battalions: 15 Cavalrymen : 4500 * Squadrons : 34
Constantine Russian Imperial Guard
Strength:10258 * Guns: 32 Infantrymen: 6830 * Battalions: 10 Cavalrymen : 2900 * Squadrons : 17
Total
Strength:87646 * Guns:196 Infantrymen:68046 * Battalions:115 Cavalrymen :16280 * Squadrons :117
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I'd like to repeat this battle (hoping there is not a all retreat movements how this time)
but with some changes,maybe wait 2 weeks.
4 symbolic corps for Soult.
LOP on the left of french (direction of Brunn)
use orendel OOB of Austerlitz.(119ceh vs 144ceh)
starting a Solo Mode Both side with the same situation at 8 o'clock (historical) of our battle.
Every hours i make a copy of sav file with the time,so if we have to repeat some action is more easy start with right file.
Next time i want to try with Bernadotte that attack Blasowith (how history),for support Vandamme and St,Hilaire and make a diversion,but i think very difficult , but will be exactly how history.
But for your side Miloradovich must invert the march at the first contact on Pratzen and do not defend.
Our is not a challenge only a attempt of simulation.
What do you think ?
Im agree, who will make new OOB and deployment?
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I think to modify map for LOP.
I work for deployment with orendel OOB (with 3 corps for Soult) in the same situation how our battle at 8 o'clock.
When i ready update here.
Only a question , in the orendel OOB there is Kutusov (in think how Kienmayer in our battle)?
Hello
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I think to modify map for LOP.
I work for deployment with orendel OOB (with 3 corps for Soult) in the same situation how our battle at 8 o'clock.
When i ready update here.
Only a question , in the orendel OOB there is Kutusov (in think how Kienmayer in our battle)?
Hello
For me, i dont like Orendel OOBs, i try to use his OOB for Borodino and Shevrdino and go to resume that JMM OOBs is better. Kutusov was nominal commander of Alied army and stay with 4th column.
What is LOP?
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ok, then will work with JMM OOB and divide Soult Corp in 4 corps.
St.Hilaire,Vandamme,Soult at Sokolnitz and a corp for ART (already present Songis).
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Map ready
JMM OOB ready
So make two different battle in PBEM (together) and see what OOB is better.
Pic with JMM OOB at 8 o'clock.
Take a look Jacquinot
Perhaps Kienmayer and Doct more in advance ?
Orendel OOB ready
Orendel deployment ready
see Pic
Note change Kutosov to Kienmayer (Avantgarde)
Murat seems strong
Langeron only 1 elite and Prebyshevsky none.(for me is right)
Only a question is not present ART on Santon and there is not Oudinot corp.
(Orendel is historical OOB) for me good.
P.S. In the orendel OOB there was many divisions or brigades with merged regiments,i have unmerged these regiments.
example
division 4/7/9 Line inf (9000 men) i modify in:
4 with 3000 men, another 7 with 3000, another 9 with 3000 men
Now we have to talking about about option for PBEM.
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I think we should play JMMs OOB, no Songis artillery, no Oudinot grenadiers, i dont like it.
What about PBEM settings?
Yes i think Kienmayer must be little more in advance.
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Full FOW,intermediate FOW,no FOW ?
I think Orders immediate and delay orders limited.
But we have time to think.
In next days put Kienmayer more in advance.
We can play 2 PBEMs together with JMM OOB and orendel OOB ,why not?
We play PBEMs slowly,with no hurry,so i have time to read a book of battle.
Start PBEMs sunday ?
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Full FOW,intermediate FOW,no FOW ?
I think Orders immediate and delay orders limited.
But we have time to think.
In next days put Kienmayer more in advance.
We can play 2 PBEMs together with JMM OOB and orendel OOB ,why not?
Start PBEMs sunday ?
Full FOW, ordres immediate.
Ok we play 2 OOB.
In sunday, at 8.00 - 10.00 Moscow time, what do you think?
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We agree with P.M. the turns ,etc etc.
Hello Jacquinot.
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There is a little problem on our deployment at 8 o'clock.
Seems that the Guard allied in march from 7 to Blasowitz.(probabily was at 8 o'clok at half way) and pehaps Bagration must to be more in advance of our position.
Wait to play PBEM there are some doubts to clear.
But the main question is :
ST.Hilaire and Vandamme do not manage to win the Pratzen , also if Miloradovich and Kollowrath surprise change direction and do not defende .They became weak very soon,is need support of Oudinot and Bessieres for to win the Pratzen and win the battle.
I make a little battle alone (in both side) with JMM OOB.
But for this question is better play a battle together when the starting deployment at 8 o'clok is definitively clarified.
Would also be a good thing to have a satellite map North south not west east , because the corps are very close at 8 o'clock.
Hello
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There is a little problem on our deployment at 8 o'clock.
Seems that the Guard allied in march from 7 to Blasowitz.(probabily was at 8 o'clok at half way) and pehaps Bagration must to be more in advance of our position.
Wait to play PBEM there are some doubts to clear.
But the main question is :
ST.Hilaire and Vandamme do not manage to win the Pratzen , also if Miloradovich and Kollowrath surprise change direction and do not defende .They became weak very soon,is need support of Oudinot and Bessieres for to win the Pratzen and win the battle.
I make a little battle alone (in both side) with JMM OOB.
But for this question is better play a battle together when the starting deployment at 8 o'clok is definitively clarified.
Would also be a good thing to have a satellite map North south not west east , because the corps are very close at 8 o'clock.
Hello
When i be play for Miloradovich i will dont give order to defence, only some stupid orders to regiments and its all be ok. We cant simulate shok and fear for 4th column when Frenchmans come to 100m open fire and do bayonet charge.
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Yes,i think you are right.
Then all closed and ended.
Hello Jacquinot
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What write your book about 4th column, who run away first Austrians or Russians and why? Why they dont see enemy, and how we can simulate morning fog?
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Yes,i think you are right.
Then all closed and ended.
Hello Jacquinot
And i think you must defeat 4th column only with St Hilare, Vandamme and Bernadotte
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Yes,is too much difficult to simulate,fog,charge,surprise,confusion etc.
I like this game ,but is not possible simulate the effect of 3-4 events simultaneous.
Mine is only a curiosity.
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And more, Napoleon can see 4th column consequently 4th column can see Napoleon, but why they cant see Vandamme and St Hilare
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Perhaps because the fog is low.
On the slope of Pratzen,on the crest maybe a better visibility.
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Perhaps because the fog is low.
On the slope of Pratzen,on the crest maybe a better visibility.
Low fog in the morning, but where? In Russia low fog in the morning i see over rivers, lakes, ravines, low places, Vandamme and St Hilare must stand around of some place. Where this place on map before Pratzen?
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Vandamme and St Hilarre have not climb the Pratzen ?
Then was under Pratzen,was low, cover with low fog and do not visible from above.
I think so,otherwise i do not know.
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Zone of morning fog - low place, lake and brook.
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A map of 18 x 13.5 Km made in usual mode (Google earth,srtm,scilab etc).
A little out of standard.
But more space for Bagration and Lannes.
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A map of 18 x 13.5 Km made in usual mode (Google earth,srtm,scilab etc).
A little out of standard.
But more space for Bagration and Lannes.
Nice map, please add trees, brooks, lakes, lans
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But is 20 % out of standard.
Is wrong to make battle , 20% more speed march,more 20% length art shot etc.
If you want i can send for mail , also Carte.bmp for overlap and placement village.
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But is 20 % out of standard.
Is wrong to make battle , 20% more speed march,more 20% length art shot etc.
If you want i can send for mail , also Carte.bmp for overlap and placement village.
Oh, so we will fight on old map right?
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Where was main action Bagration vs Lannes, between Goldbach hill and Blasowitz?
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On main road.
But we play or not ?
I had understood that we not play ,because ST. Hilaire and Vandamme do not succeed to win Pratzen.
I for win must support them with Guard.
But if you want play PBEMs , for me is ok
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On main road.
But we play or not ?
I had understood that we not play ,because ST. Hilaire and Vandamme do not succeed to win Pratzen.
I for win must support them with Guard.
But if you want play PBEMs , for me is ok,but i must explain some things.
continue ....
Of course we play! Im try simulate disorder in 4th column so you can defeat only with Vandamme and St Hilaire :smile:
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ok,thank you.
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Deployment modified.
CEHs after unmerged some regiments from divisions or brigades
JMM OOB 108 vs 104
Orendel 123 vs 144
Option to start ->Full FOW and orders immediate.
Battle start 8-> 14 hours duration
Doctrine standard
Orders to execute for frenchs (historical)
1) ST Hilaire and Vandamme attack Pratzen.
2)Bernadotte attack Blasowitz with diversion
3)Guard march to west- south to support Soult at Sokolnitz
4)Oudinot march to south
Orders to execute for allied.(historical)
1)Guard march to Blasowitz
2)Lichtenstein march to Blasowitz for to placement in front to Murat (more or less).
3)IV columns invert march and do not defende on Pratzen.
4)Kienmayer and Docturov attack Telnitz.
5)Langeron and Prib.(II and III colums) attack Sokolnitz.
After that is free battle.
see pics for last deployment.
@Jacquinot wait your ok before start PBEMs battles.
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Ok, deal! Wait your PBEM.
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Good victory TACT ans Strat for french.
Good simulation with JMM OOB with end very similar to historical losses.
Thank to Jacquinot that has simulated the passive behavior of IV Column (Miloradovich and Kollowrat),surprise on Pratzen.
Also important change OOB with unmerged corps Soult of ST.Hilaire and Vandamme , more easy to maneuver.
Sokolnitz safe with support of french Guard.
Attempt to simulation , not challenge.
Next battles to play in similar mode (Borodino,Waterloo etc) to find better conditions to play and simulate the History.
pic of last screenshot.