HistWar
HistWar (English zone) => General discussions => Discussion démarrée par: Montecuccoli le 08 octobre 2009, 18:53:40 pm
-
In --------- forum i asked if anyone should share his AAR from tabletop napoleonic battles, one of the members (malcolm) gave me this link
http://murat.ca/NB/campaign2/Padua/battleofpadua.htm
So i'm trying to replay that miniatures' battle with HWLG and see what will happen.
The "real" battle is settled in 1800 but i choos to play it in 1809, the numbers of troops is fairly the same (French 22000, Austrians 36000); Austrian have greater number and more cavalry; the miniatures' AAR says that french artillery is dispersed so, in HWLG, i did not edit a proper Line Battery but gave to French side some regimental guns to create this dispersion.
Please follow this little AAR sharing this with the miniatures' battle AAR
---
So, opening moves the Austrian approaches really slow to the villages of Noventa and Vigodarze; Archduke Charles is obliged to repeat the attack/deploy order for his generals do not advance at proper speed but they are prone to stand, make defensive line and the march again...
After the new orders are given all Autrian line begin (again) the movement; first fire is from some austrian batteries to the Vigodarze village; in the meantime Austrian left wing approaches Noventa and begins firefight....
[EDIT JMM] Short test to control if it's possible to display this picture with its initial size.
(http://www.histwar.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3107.0;attach=3076;image)
-
Some other pic for Noventa
-
French defending Noventa
-
Austrians force their advance on Noventa, Curassiers engaged the tiny lancers units from France and rout them from the field; so giving free space for manouevre for infantry.
-
During the assault to Noventa some austrian regiments occupy the center of the battlefield and, seeing italian regiments far away, try to advance directly to Padua (this is a move made by the Corp AI due the deploy orders i gave). Italians receive austrians with a close volley fire and so Hessen Homburg hussars advance to force those enemies to make squares (again an AI move)
-
In the meantime Grenzer are advancing to Vigodarze, after heavy bombing, but their advance is really slow (grenzers must fight against french line infantry)
-
Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to publish this AAR.
Much to learn from the manual :D
-
Montecuccoli can have a top view. The mini map is for me a little hard to read.
Thanks
-
Montecuccoli can have a top view. The mini map is for me a little hard to read.
Thanks
no problems, i will try to make a 2d overview of the battlefield and even a bird's eye view of it (osprey's style) :)
-
At Vigodarze two regiments of grenzers are compelled to recoil, the french line infantry is a tough opponent. However the artillery superiority is on the side of Charles, so after heavy bombing Vigodarze is put on flames and Austrians smash their final blow with line infantry... Vigodarze falls; to cover the retreat of French units Lannes (Massena chief of Corp) launches some rallied lancers against Hungarian Hussars, but, after a mighty melee they are routed.
At the same time even Noventa falls to Austrians.
-
Here i enclose a bird's eye view (this view can be reached through the F4 button of the keyboard and the player can issue order and even play with this vew) that portraits situation when austrians capture the villages.
-
The battle goes on, Massena is unable to dislodge Austrian from Noventa and Vigodarze. A general recoil to Padua is ordered and the French Divisions leave the battlefield in quite good order; the Austrian are holding the field but they suffered many losses and a pursuit can't be ordered.
Archduke Charles win the day but this is not a Strategic victory.
See final results as a sample
Thanks for reading and thanks to the user malcolm from ---------.com forum
-
Thanks for top map. Now I understand.
How long it lasted scenario (reality and computer)? On PBEM how many rounds?
And if is not a Strategic victory is ........ There are only data or even a score.
You can try AI vs AI.
Thanks again
-
Thanks for top map. Now I understand.
How long it lasted scenario (reality and computer)? On PBEM how many rounds?
Wait for Montecuccoli
And if is not a Strategic victory is ........ There are only data or even a score.
You can try AI vs AI.
For this kind of battle, there isn't any strategic evaluation... it's a rear guard fighting.
AI vs AI... not yet!!! Working on the last adjustments...
JMM
-
The game seems to be operational.
Have you sent orders to army corps along the battle, or did you just give instructions at the beginning and leave AI deal with tactic ?
Oh, by the way, what is the difference between « Strenght » and « Potential » ?
-
Potential is exactly what I'll be needing for my Campaign. It seemingly represents their effective strength after a bit of time to recover. The battlefield losses seem huge (notice that all the French cavalry was seeming lost) but that represents effective, immediate losses (no longer able to participate in the battle).
The losses seem in line with what we got in the miniatures game and so too the general results.
The 'stream' appeared to be of zero consequence. Are there differing types of stream that could represent more of an obstacle? The Fontenone creek at Marengo, for example, (http://murat.ca/NB/marengo5.jpg) was the sort that made crossing it under fire a serious obstacle. In the battle shown, the French nowhere tried to defend the creek line and given the preponderance of Austrian artillery and lack of cover, that seems reasonable.
In our miniatures version, the French had more artillery, almost as much as the Austrians, which affected their strategic options.
Thanks, Montecuccoli, for playing it out and providing the AAR
P.S. The miniature game took 11 turns @ 30 minutes per turn. But that time scale is always suspect since there's no standing around time added.
-
I understood HW:LG has no campaign mode. What could « potential » mean in that kind of game ?
-
I understood HW:LG has no campaign mode. What could « potential » mean in that kind of game ?
simple, players can arrange a campaign on paper or virtual board and use potential as the survivors of the army to continue the campaign.
-
So potential indicates the army strenght in the aftermath of the battle. :roll:
Good, thank you. :smile:
-
That's wonderful, Montecuccoli, thank you very much. And also to Malcom for providing the minatures report with photos.
I love the fact that the AAR provides figures for the next battle. I'd hazard a guess that the 'potential' OoB can be automatically generated from Les Grogs, too?
-
I repeat the questions that you have lost :):
How long it lasted scenario (reality and computer)? On PBEM how many rounds?
and adds others:
Only theoretically, you can play the other side (how does the AI in attack :twisted:)?
again Only theoretically, how could you differently develop your plan of attack in your opinion?
Thanks
-
it is difficult to evaluate how much time this battle lasted, i saved the game and played it in spare time, however i sense this tiny rear guard engagement lasted (real time) quite from 2 hours to 3 (notice that you can speed up the game and i often play at 30/60 so 30 seconds is 1 minute, but you can even play like 5 seconds is 1 minute)
During battle i switched from Austria to France and the AI in offensive side is good, because at the time the AI develops deploy lines then is the Corp AI that take the micromanagement at the Corp AI is going good in my opinion.
Changing the plan during battle is possible but really difficult when corps are engaged, for example i tried to change a deploy order to a diversion order for the Corp attacking Vigodarze but regiments was too much engaged and they continued to fight instead that break the fight, recoil and redeploy.
-
Montecuccoli,
Thank you for further information. When you try to change orders to your subordinate commander:
1. This has to be by staff officer?
2. Can he be killed or captured (if captured can any information be had)?
What exactly do the icons showing mounted and unmounted men?
Oh for a manual :cry:
-
JMM said once an aide-de-camp might be captured if he runs into an enemy. Then, the order will not be sent and your opponent will know its content.
-
Thanks for prompt reply. Looking better than ever - if that is possible :mrgreen:
-
What a complete difference in the visuals from the miniatures battle to the HWLG version. In the miniatures it is untidy and cramped, there is almost no room for maneuver. In LG, the opposite applies.
Thank you very much for demonstrating the difference and hinting at the enjoyment we are all going to have soon. :)