WATERLOO who was to blame

[TC27]

Its unfair to dismiss all the DB troops as being poor, they actually performed pretty in many parts of the campaign if you objectively analyse  them.

Discussing troop quality is a real minefield especially as nationalistic bias kicks in for most of us...hopefully we wont get too bogged down it it here!

I think the fatal mistake Napoleon made in the campaign was to give up his central position following Ligny - I think Napoleon over-estimated how mauled the Prussian army was (remember an entire Corps of the Rhine Army was not even engaged at Ligny) and was content to let Grouchy passively follow what he thought was a beaten army rather than actively drive the Prussians back and away from Wellington.

[Uhlanen]

Remember that the British is actually in the minority in the Allied Army. Majority are Dutch-Belgian (low-low quality)
and some German contingents (OK).

Welly

Anything none English was considered poor quality by English writers Its called national bias or more accurately irrational national bias . The Dutch were as good and as well lead as many of the English regiments and performed just as well as the bulk of the allied troops and better then some.

[TC27]

Anything none English was considered poor quality by English writers Its called national bias or more accurately irrational national bias . The Dutch were as good and as well lead as many of the English regiments and performed just as well as the bulk of the allied troops and better then some.

I would largely agree with you though I suspect alot of this was due to the mistrust of the loyalty and motivation of the DB troops which my have distorted many comptempary writers views. I suspect that if you are Dutch or a Belgium you find this extremely annoying when its repeated now and its due in no small part to Bernard Cornwells novel about the battle.

The thing to remember about the allied army is that even if alot of the troops were raw most of the officers were professional veterans of numerous campaigns - there was no shortage of experienced officers in Europe in 1815!

[KO|Druid]

Didn't the Dutch-Belgians save the day when all the Scots ran from the ridge?

[Wellesley]

Run away? They are smart enough to protect themselves with the reversed slope tactics. Do you remember who reppelled
d'Erlon's attack?

Welly

[AJ]

OK Guys, as the person who started this topic, I feel the need to calm it down when it's getting heated. So let's keep the discussions away from "Nationalistic Pride" and concentrate on who was to blame.

[Wellesley]

All I am trying to say is Wellington and the British contingents should shoulder some of the 'blames' for Nappy's defeat.
Yes, Davout might tip the balance. But if it was Blucher/Kutusov/Schwarzenberg incommand instead of Wellington and
Prussian/Russian/Austrian in the field instead of British, would you think Waterloo might turn out to be a Nappy victory?

Welly

[Jean Lafitte]

Wellesley the actual and focused topic of conversation in this thread was meant to be the question of:  From the French side alone, who was to blame for Waterloo?

It's a narrow question.

The issue is:    Of all of the French commanders and staff officers, which one or ones were most to blame for their negative outcome of the Waterloo Campaign of 100 Days?

You can agree that, when the issue is framed in this manner, the merits of the Allied commanders and soldiers are topics that are outside of the scope of the question, yes?

[AJ]

Jean, you have said exactly what I was trying to convey. Thankyou. It is acknowledged by all that Wellington and Blucher played their part well but that is not the topic question

[Jean Lafitte]

Thank you for your compliments.

A separate thread discussing the converse of this issue, namely, who takes most of the credit on the Allied side, should generate a lively discussion of the merits of both Wellington and Blucher. Both were fine commanders, and among the best of their era.

But, of course, that discussion is not for this thread.

[AJ]

After doing a lot more reading and video documentary watching etc... I realised that in the Davout affair I had only concentrated on the Strategic. All the tactical opinions posted had their own merit. I have my opinion now on the worst of the tactical errors.

Marching D'erlon between Quatre Bras and Ligny back and forth. D'erlon followed the Emperors orders and set of from Quatre Bras to Ligny, Ney countermanded them, D'erlon marched back. He took no part in either battle, his presence in either may well have been decisive.  This would have changed everything on the 18th, if the 18th even would then have happened

[rname2233]

Both wellington and Napoleon did everything right in Waterloo as i see it. It just favoured wellington in the end


At the most unclear orders could be to blame for some of the french armies mistakes. That was no ones fault realy


Nap had to move davot to train an army to fight russia and aust. If that had not been done and nap won waterloo he would not have what he needed to face them


Change in staff due to some needing to be replaced assinations n natual death

The replacement just sent the orders as he got them but the prevous rewrote them to make them more clear

[General_Chasse]

I did some reading too.

* Napoleon is to blame for the events leading up to Waterloo, going back to his invasion of Russia etc., killing off his horses, unable to stop the guys in Germany.

* d'Erlon's useless marches 2 days earlier.

* the unsupported calvary attack of Ney. I read everywhere that had Napoleon sent in his guard right then and there, he would have smashed the Allies. Why was he so reluctant in using them? Perhaps he didn't know the state of affairs of the Allies during the attacks? (see next point)

* lack of proper communication - the ridge which blocked Napoleon's view of the real state of infantry during the cavalry attacks. Had he known how it looked, he might have made a decision regarding sending in the guard. Yet it seems he didn't.
Belle Alliance is about a mile from the ridge. Was it so troublesome to get such a message across?

[rname2233]

Russia caused him to lose the war aginst the 6th coalition too. If he hadnt there would of been no 6th col in the first place

If napoleon did ever make mistake it was to invade russia

[Wellesley]

I remember a saying which goes something like: When God wanted to destroy someone, He would first make him proud.