HistWar
HistWar (English zone) => General discussions => Discussion démarrée par: Gunner24 le 30 novembre 2009, 16:48:22 pm
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Has anyone figured out if there is anywhere that tells you how long it will be before the orders are recieved ?......I've had many instances where the orders NEVER seem to get there, whole Corps with "no orders" several hours after they were sent, and re-sent.....is this a game feature or a "bug".
Other Corps get the orders and move off without trouble, but some don't, even when you check the oders info bar and see the lines and arrows drawn on the map, the Corps Commander says "no orders".....ahhhhh, that is frustrating.
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Has anyone figured out if there is anywhere that tells you how long it will be before the orders are recieved ?......I've had many instances where the orders NEVER seem to get there, whole Corps with "no orders" several hours after they were sent, and re-sent.....is this a game feature or a "bug".
Other Corps get the orders and move off without trouble, but some don't, even when you check the oders info bar and see the lines and arrows drawn on the map, the Corps Commander says "no orders".....ahhhhh, that is frustrating.
Agreed. I had a case of a regt of polish lancers only a 100m or so away from a limbered battery of russian artillery, and they refused my repeated orders to attack!
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Yes, I've seen that as well, but I'm more worried about WHOLE Corps not having orders, after like 2 hours or so.....even when the orders are shown on the map, with arrows and lines.
Agreed. I had a case of a regt of polish lancers only a 100m or so away from a limbered battery of russian artillery, and they refused my repeated orders to attack!
How far away were they from the Corps Commander, or Army Commander, that may be important, or not, I'm really not sure....back to the manual for me, ha.
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Maybe this is the reason :
2.1.5 Delivery of Orders (Immediate, Delayed)
This is the final parameter setting for the delayed execution of orders. This parameter
triples the time taken to draft the orders. For example, even without taking into account
the time necessary for the transmission of a message, the time necessary for
executing an order can be as much as 2 hours for a corps at maximum strength (24
units) which is led by a Commanding Officer with little competence.
Hmmmm.
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I guess that explains why (IIRC) Mortier could not handle the 8'ish 12 pounder batteries I had handed to him as the only thing to worry about. After more than an hour I started moving them manually.
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I have noticed that orders not being carried out might be the general not liking what you asked.
I tried several times to get division to deploy on line, and it wouldnt do it. I tried deploy in defence along the same line and it did like it. Looking around I saw some units which could have made the general uneasy ... so it could be the reason
What would be nice is if a journal message came up saying "I am not doing that because ... " which would give me a good reason to either try another deployment, or re deploy units to another general and get them to do it, if they have a better skill level and can attempt harder things
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"I am not doing that because ... " which would give me a good reason to ...
call firing squad ? ;)
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I have noticed that orders not being carried out might be the general not liking what you asked.
Now that is interesting and if it's right it's a good feature, but something HAS to tell you there is a problem with that order.....as things stand it's not at all clear if it''s working as it should be or if there is some kind of bug......I have no problem with orders being "refused" but we have to be told that.
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Now that is interesting and if it's right it's a good feature, but something HAS to tell you there is a problem with that order.....as things stand it's not at all clear if it''s working as it should be or if there is some kind of bug......I have no problem with orders being "refused" but we have to be told that.
I agree - if the AI refuses an order the player has to be notified somehow, otherwise one might try to send the same order over and over thinking the courier has been caught etc. and that would be very frustrating.
LvD
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I had another example of this, The CiC was about 40 minutes away from the CC and I sent an order at about 10am, the Corps finnaly started to move off at about 2pm ????????????????.
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I've had corps commanders take their sweet time starting off. I wonder if the game is taking into account how long it takes to write the orders (longer for a less competent corps commander) AND how long it takes the corps commander to understand the orders and organize his units to carry them out. Add these to the delays it takes to actually carry the orders to the corps commanders and it can take quite a while.
Hook
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I think that's what at work here, which is perhaps realastic but a bit "tough" for game play.......I will expect that for MP games the order system will be set for no delay, I've messed about with different set ups and this looks like it will give a better game - and take some of the frustration of having 20,000 men 1,000 yards away that refuse to move for about 5 hours !.
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There seems to be an assumption that humble couriers carry all the messages. Sometimes senior officers would take them, especially if ordered by the General to find out what was going on. So there should be some feedback when an order is refused, or when the Corps commander is waiting for some condition (enemy cavalry to move off or something) before complying. In reality, there would have been some intelligence coming back to the General, and his staff officers would be actively finding out what the problems were.
Of course one thinks of Napoleon screaming out for Grouchy at Waterloo but that has to be an exception.
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Welcome to the world of Order Delays! :D
Some of us love them, but they're not for everyone. You get used to it after a while. If you've never played a game with order delays before, it can be very frustrating.
My last game I got tired of the Imperial Guard hanging around waiting and give two of the infantry units orders to attack specific units. They started out immediately (Napoleon was right next to them at the time) and the other infantry unit moved forward at the same time along with the artillery that was with them. The cavalry had already advanced, attacked, and was escaping off the field. Idiots. We'll be having words with the commander.
I have no idea why they were standing around scratching themselves and making crude jokes. Maybe they were "resting" from the long march from the rear of the field. Maybe they were waiting for another unit to finish its attack, and those guys weren't even in the fight yet.
Look, I expect some other units to be rather philosophical about advancing into combat (ie, they think about it for a long time), but the Imperial Guard either moves out smartly when I give an order or I'll have a new Imperial Guard.
Hook
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The orders delay is a great part of the game, I like it and want to use it, but if it's working CORRECTLY in the demo I'm thinking it has been set with too much delay in some case's......would a CC wait for 3-4 hours before moving off after being ordered to by the CiC who is only half a mile away ?.
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Delay of orders is a massive part of the game and cannot be underestimated... Battles will be lost and won on the delays of poor commanders I am sure. The difference between good and bad commanders (time delays) should be big. This way when building an army or commanding one on the field it won't be 'just another stat'. We will have to look and say, "AH Ney, good, he will get them moving". This seems somehow very realistic to me.
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Gunner24: I'd have to check the manual again, but there is an extra delay option that limits delay to 40 minutes, I think. I don't know exactly how it works, because I haven't tried it, but you can have a look and see what you think.
Hook
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Delay of orders is a massive part of the game and cannot be underestimated... Battles will be lost and won on the delays of poor commanders I am sure. The difference between good and bad commanders (time delays) should be big. This way when building an army or commanding one on the field it won't be 'just another stat'. We will have to look and say, "AH Ney, good, he will get them moving". This seems somehow very realistic to me.
I totally agree. The delay of orders is perhaps the single most important aspect of game play which seperates this game from virtually all other wargames (with the exception of TC2M - though I think LG does it much better). I think that there does need some fine tuning (some delays, as has been noted, are too long), but not having total control is a core part of what will make this game unbeatable.
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From the manual :
2.1.4 Delivery of Orders (Immediate, Delayed)
This parameter also has a significant impact on the level of difficulty.
If the time delay option is enabled, two factors will determine how long it will take for
orders to be executed:
· The period of time needed by the aide-de-camp to deliver the orders
to your subordinate commander,
· The period of time the commanding officer needs to send the orders
to his units. This time delay takes into account the commander
officer’s competence, the number of units under his command, as
well as the intermediate hierarchy (division or brigade). An additional
penalty will apply to units of a different nationality to that of the
commanding officer.
2.1.5 Delivery of Orders (Immediate, Delayed)
This is the final parameter setting for the delayed execution of orders. This parameter
triples the time taken to draft the orders. For example, even without taking into account
the time necessary for the transmission of a message, the time necessary for
executing an order can be as much as 2 hours for a corps at maximum strength (24
units) which is led by a Commanding Officer with little competence.
2.1.4 and 2.1.5 have the same title ?......I'm not sure there is TWO options in the demo, only delay or no delay, maybe this has something to do with SOME orders taking 3,4,5 hours ?????.
Whatever the reason the orders being delayed is a great feature, but maybe for "gameplay" reason another look might be needed to see if the delays are too long - in some case's
would a CC wait for 3-4 hours before moving off after being ordered to by the CiC who is only half a mile away ?.
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Maybe this is the reason :
2.1.5 Delivery of Orders (Immediate, Delayed)
.... which is led by a Commanding Officer with little competence.
Hmmmm.
It's only early days, Gunner. I think you're probably being a little harsh on yourself, don't you think?! ;P
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Ha, indeed, yes, maybe.....
I now see in the demo we have :
ORDERS : Immediate or delayed
DELAY : Limited or Historical
From my tinkering around I would say the "historical" is very very tough, on "limited" I find it far more playable, there are still delays but they appear to be a lot more reasonable than when set to historical.......I would say historical would be excellent for a campaign, but not so good for a face to face battle where the action is happening all in one day.
I believe with ORDERS at delayed, and DELAY at limited, we have a very nice "playable" setting but of course everyone will prefer their own combination of these things.
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The orders delay is a great part of the game, I like it and want to use it, but if it's working CORRECTLY in the demo I'm thinking it has been set with too much delay in some case's......would a CC wait for 3-4 hours before moving off after being ordered to by the CiC who is only half a mile away ?.
If JMM has done this like I think he would and should, there is no such thing as a delay working correctly.
Anyone and anything on a field of battle can be delayed for a million reasons for god knows how long as you well know.
But maybe JMM can another level in between where delays have a maximum limit of some kind?
Myself, I just love the uncertainty with these delays :D
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But maybe JMM can another level in between where delays have a maximum limit of some kind?
Myself, I just love the uncertainty with these delays
It's a great feature of the game, it's only that "historical" appears to being in some delays that are VERY long and not much fun !....on "limited" I find it excellent.