HistWar
HistWar (English zone) => General discussions => Discussion démarrée par: pdmeff le 30 novembre 2009, 18:28:13 pm
-
Why there is no order to attack or advance? I can`t imagine historical generals to write an order "go to the end of village, deploy a line 200 meters wide, stand there and watch your oponents soldiers marching just near you.."
No offence but this is really strange. For example I placed line just behind Austrian line and what I expeted was properly executed advance of my troops. Other thing happend. Few of my batalions marched through the enemy line wihtout reaction while the rest of division was standing nearby and watching them to be cut to pieces.
Second example was when my batalion walked just straight on the enemy and stopped a few meter in front of them absolutly calm.
Is there some kind of "thinking in the sense of tactic" on the regimental or division level or is it just "go to the enemy, when you see them in your way stop and may be do some fire?"
Or am I doing something wrong?
Thank you
(sorry for my english)
-
Why there is no order to attack or advance? I can`t imagine historical generals to write an order "go to the end of village, deploy a line 200 meters wide, stand there and watch your oponents soldiers marching just near you.."
"Deploy" is an offensive order ; knowing that it doesn't need "attack" or "advance" orders because it exactly means the same. Just a question of vocabulary.
Few of my batalions marched through the enemy line wihtout reaction while the rest of division was standing nearby and watching them to be cut to pieces.
Very strange indeed. I never noticed that in beta test.
-
I understand but I mean an order like "deploy line between village and river when in contact with enemy you are clear to advance (or to fall back)".
And the second thing I expected some kind of complex reaction when my troops spotted enemy between them and their planned destination e.g. flanking, concentrating and pressure. Nothing has happend. Just going forward. :shock:
-
I tried a general assault right now, and the ai just won't they end up just standing around or forming square. very hard to actualy get corps to move
-
Take Command: Second Manassas which in some ways is similar to HISTWAR has a nice feature where you can have your bde commanders adopt different postures such as Offensive Defensive probe etc which gives them general "intent" guidance when they get to a certain area.
I too was scratching my head at this but then again it may be a matter of translation...
Los
-
Aren't you supposed to draw the deploy line behind your enemies if you want an offensive posture for the column? Or so I remember from the manual
-
There's some funny stuff happening, which is hard to believe it happened in testing, so, we have to assume "something" went wrong with the demo compared to the full game that was being tested.....there is no way on earth the testers could have missed the strange things that are happening, a few examples :
Two Regiments in a 10+ minute (short range) minute fire fight - after some early loses of men in both Regiments, they get down two 2400 v 2100 men and no more men are lost in either Regiment ?.
Artillery batteries go miles ahead of their Corps and deploy to open fire, is this right ?.
Cavalry fired on by artillery - Cavalry vanish.
Enemy units very close to each other and neither side take any kind of action.
But the main frustration I have so far is with the orders being delivered and/or cancelled....why do so many Corps orders not get carried out ?. Anyone solved this yet, I know there's a BIG delay in getting from the CiC to the CC but sometimes they NEVER get there and sometimes the orders appear to have been cancelled as they are not there any longer. If this is a game "feature" it's too many to be sensible.....but even with all that LG looks like it can be the great game we want - but it's needs to work better than the demo !.
-
But the main frustration I have so far is with the orders being delivered and/or cancelled....
this has never happened to me, strange. Sooner or later all my orders are carried out. What I really hate is when after 1 hour of pure awesomeness (marching of troops, drums, cavalry scouting, early artillery exchanges) units begin to disappear... it's the only game-broker bug for me now.
-
Take Command: Second Manassas which in some ways is similar to HISTWAR has a nice feature where you can have your bde commanders adopt different postures such as Offensive Defensive probe etc which gives them general "intent" guidance when they get to a certain area.
I too was scratching my head at this but then again it may be a matter of translation...
Los
Yes I know it very well ;) There were also many problems but I did enjoy it. But the best one is ANGW I think, it has AI control and "orders" too.
-
Artillery batteries go miles ahead of their Corps and deploy to open fire, is this right ?.
It probably is. You might want to put an infantry unit or two supporting them as was done in the first tutorial.
But the main frustration I have so far is with the orders being delivered and/or canceled....why do so many Corps orders not get carried out ?
This is the main feature that sets Histwar apart from other wargames. And we're not even getting order delays yet. Even without delays I've noticed that it may take a while for an order to update on the F8 screen. If you think it's bad now, wait until you start playing the real game! :D
Hook
-
And we're not even getting order delays yet. Even without delays I've noticed that it may take a while for an order to update on the F8 screen. If you think it's bad now, wait until you start playing the real game!
There are order delays in the demo, in the battle, on Grogs mode.......there is a place that says how long the order wil take to get to the Corps, the further you are away from it the longer the delay is.....so if you send an order at 10am and the delay is 1.5 hours the order should get there at 11.30am......but even at 12 or 12.30 it still shows NO orders.....this is not an isolated case, it happens a lot. Sometimes the orders vanish, someone has said it might be to do with that Corps Commander not wanting to carry out that order, but if that's right we need to know that !.
You might want to put an infantry unit or two supporting them as was done in the first tutorial.
If the arty unit is a part of the Corps and NOT detached, you would expect the Corps to defend it in some way - no ?.
-
I wasn't aware that we could change the fog of war options. Early reports were that it would cause the game to crash. Now that I know I can, I'm going to.
I think we need some indication that a corps commander hasn't received an order. Normally the aide-de-camp would return with a receipt telling you that the order was received. If we don't get that receipt in a reasonable time, then our chief of staff should let us know and offer to resend the order. That's what the chief of staff is for, after all. This might already be done automatically.
I'm not sure how to handle a corps commander refusing an order. It's not like Soult is going to send a note back to Napoleon saying, "Are you out of your mind??"
If you've ever played Turcan's Waterloo, we had the same problems with orders not being delivered or being refused, with no indication that it happened. It could be quite frustrating.
I don't know about you, but I expect a corps to send its artillery forward to begin a bombardment before the corps advances. Napoleon would form grand batteries to begin shelling the enemy before the battle started. I'm not aware of these batteries being supported by other troops. It might be nice if the corps sent out a couple of units automatically to support them if they were moving too far away from the body of troops, but even if they don't you can detail a unit or two to support them. Cavalry would be good for this, for obvious reasons. :)
Hook
-
I have also noticed that artillery units tend to deploy well ahead of the rest of the corps. That is not a big problem if you are advancing since your corps will catch up, but when you tell the corps to defend a line and the artillery sets up all alone in no-man's land 100-200 meters in front of the rest of the units there's something wrong IMO. In the Montobello battle I have seen this on several occasions. Of course one can manually order the artillery units to a certain spot and unlimber, but it would be really nice if we could trust the AI commanders to deploy in a decent manner without micro management - there is enough to think about! ;)
LvD
-
the artillery sets up all alone in no-man's land 100-200 meters in front of the rest of the units
Yes, a bit annoying, it would be better if they kept a closer to the Corps units they are part of.
Artillery does appear to get "picked" off by Cavalry easier than I expected, from the flanks, as they are so far ahead of their support troops. They don't seem to get any protection.
-
My problem is that corps don't keep togeather, not even divisions.
When I order a corps to attack, 80% of the brigades just stand 500 yards from the enemy why they send 1 and 1 brigade at the enemy numbering 10 000+
The attack is VERY disorganised, and often units end up miles from their corps commander or other units in the same division or corps.
It makes it very hard to actualy prefrom a corianted attack, I can order and order all day long for sevral corps to attack, but in the end only tiny fraction attack and they always attack alone
-
Fixed a long time ago :D
-
HI
I know what you mean, playing last week and ordered my artillery to set up between to divisions, did they do this no! off they went on their own and got wiped out.
Even when I gave them repeated orders to move back, nothing, all they did was limber up and then rides round in the same spot and then start to set up their guns again
Artillery would normally set up just in front of your division ,so if the guns where charge the gunners would try to get to the infantry squires , a good artillery officer would know how long it would tack to pull back to save his guns and not let them get over run.
I was playing the allies in this game and even the infantry Division end up marching off ,even when you have given them an order to hold their ground , it is near imposable to form a battle line ,as they just seem to do what they like .
It gets very annoying with this happening.
Also orders in the game; I had Napoleon standing in-between two corps , the corps where no more than 100 meters apart form each other , I was keeping them in reserve ,for the right moment to send them in .
I gave the order to attack to both corps , it still took me sending repeated orders to get them moving , one of the corps took over an hour to start it attack!.
And when they did go in the corps just split up and attacked peace mill, I even found some of the corps units marching away from their corps!
The other thing that bugs me with this game is the way the cavalry go charging off, even when you give them support infantry cops orders that have not even come within engagement range.
I have wanted years for this game but it feels like you are fighting just to keep things going, without even try to fight the enemy!
I have spent 30 years playing and studying the napoleons wars and this game could have been the greatest game ever ,but it just keeps falling apart in so many areas , it has now come to the point where it a grind just to play a battle.
Sorry if this comes across as a rant, but paying so much money for a game that has a lot of bugs in it, and boy am I getting feed up having to install patches just to get it to work as it should. :(
Darren
-
My experience is that the order take time to have an effect (depends on distance), but eventually they will succeed. As already pointed out, it takes some time for your last order to appear on the map after being issued, and it also takes time to receive a confirmation. Usually the corps take time concentrating before marching. Some other times the corps commander feels that he has to disobey the order because of the situation or troops' morale/fatigue. So far I am very satisfied with the orders modeling.
I just think that there should be a "deploy immediately order" (could be an option of the deploy order) for the corps to start marching immediately to the final position, even before concentration, just like the units do in the "defend in line" order. This would be great to rapidly occupy terrain, specially if there are no enemies there or the enemy force is too weak.
Regarding the artillery deployment, so far I am very happy. I have experienced several times that the artillery commander orders the batteries to "recoil" if there is imminent danger. I usually loose pieces only if e.g. an artillery corps (a grand battery) deploys without support.
Maybe you should post the snapshots of the situations that you have described.
-
Thank MDA for explanation Art for recoil with imminent danger,I until now do not have understand well what was.
Yes some little bugs there are still ,but until are killed off , i consider them accidental events in the battle.
I like play with a opponent and the bugs there for me how for him.
During a battle never is sure and is always a difficult unsterstand well the the way to win a battle.
I am playing two PBEM battles, the first that i considered safest is which I am suffering the greatest losses and the other that i considered more difficult is the best for me.
I like this uncertainty for to planning a battle in the simplest way is possible.
If everything is easy to predict? where's the fun?
-
This area of the game is one that I agree could use further refinement.
The existing order set is general enough for some attacks, but doing things like ordering an attack without a lengthy artillery bombardment becomes extremely tricky. The idea seems to be that the C-in-C issues general orders without regards to details, but this is not always (or often) the case.
This reliance on the AI to carry out general plans also keeps the game largely one where artillery and cavalry see combat, and infantry seem relegated somewhat to the sidelines in most engagements that I've played. I've stopped playing much due to this, but I see some activity is still taking place by JMM, so I'm hopeful that the game continues to evolve. I'll be sure to keep checking back periodically on it, as it's interesting.
-
This reliance on the AI to carry out general plans also keeps the game largely one where artillery and cavalry see combat, and infantry seem relegated somewhat to the sidelines in most engagements that I've played. I've stopped playing much due to this, but I see some activity is still taking place by JMM, so I'm hopeful that the game continues to evolve. I'll be sure to keep checking back periodically on it, as it's interesting.
Well, I always rely a lot on infantry...