Positions on 2d map.

[Gunner24]

In picture one we see the REAL French position, in picture two we see the REAL Russian position.





These troops are very close to each other yet the "reported" enemy position is not where they really are, the spotted positions are different to the real positions, even though both sides are in plain view of each other.

These pictures were taken a few seconds apart.  Does this help to explain why we see different things on the 2d map to the 3d map - at the same time ?????.

[Hook]

Units with black backgrounds were their original reported positions.  When the units are spotted again in the game, their positions will be updated.

Hook

[GrosPaul]

Dear Hook, please, would you explain the relation with your explanation and the problem submitted by Gunner24.
No doubt for me Gunner24 has grasp the idea. Alas, personaly, I can understand many things but need  many and relentless explanations 

Cheers, GP.

[von Döbeln]

If he is using fog of war then the first picture shows the latest French report of the Russian units' whereabouts (even though they may not be there anymore), and the second picture shows their actual locations and vice versa for the French units. I'm not quite sure what the problem is?

vD

[GrosPaul]

Thank you, for the try von Döbeln.

BUT Gunner24 specified: "These troops are very close to each other yet the "reported" enemy position is not where they really are, the spotted positions are different to the real positions, even though both sides are in plain view of each other."

So, summarizing the situation, the units are "very close to each other" and "both sides are in plain view of each other". Therefore, even if fog of war was in use it seems a very soft argument for clearing this situation, in my opinion.

Best regards, GP.

[JMM]

Don't forget the fog of war is for the CinC...
The mechanism is like that...

Quick update if the CinC A  directly sees a ENY B.
If an unit A sees an ENY B, this information needs a time for transferring to CinC...

I spent a lot of time about this function and I am sure it's right...

JMM

[GrosPaul]

JMM you say "Don't forget the fog of war is for the CinC..." all right but also for the chiefs of corps isn't it?

Anyway, refering to the datas given by Gunner24, the fog of war can be put aside due to : "the units are "very close to each other and both sides are in plain view of each other".

Ah! It is like reviving an inspector Colombo investigation  .

[JMM]

I don't know where is the CinC... and I can see a hilly landscape.. so I may not say if there is a problem...

That said, I say again it's a part of software where one guy of beta test team and I spent a lot of time... It was a very interesting process to build.

JMM

[Gunner24]

The reason I posted this was, if in 3d mode the French and Russians are almost on top of each other, some are very very close, in fact fighting, but on the 2d map they are not shown in the atucal positions.......they are still shown a long way apart when in fact they are in contact and fighting.......if this is becasue the troops in contact have to send a report back to the CiC and the 2d view is updated by the CiC I can understand the difference.

I'm sure this explains why things are happening on the 2d map but when you switch to the 3d view there is nothing there - the two views are showing different information at the same time.

I would have expected the 2d map to show the real positions WHEN the enemy Regiments are next to each other and fighting.......if you are using the 2d view ONLY, for a MP game, you are not getting the action as it happens, I understand from the comments above this is by design, but it's worth noting that the 2d and 3d views are NOT the same thing in real time, even when units are on top of each other.

[JMM]

OK.. I'll take a look at this question...

JMM

[Hook]

The units are less right on top of each other than you may think.  I understand spotting distance for infantry is 500 meters, and those units look farther apart than that once you've looked at the actual positions of both sides at the same time.  A screen shot of both sides visible at once would have been useful, which could be obtained with the visibility option changed to unconditional.

That being said, I've seen the same thing and had to wonder why so few enemy units were shown on the 2D map, even when they were closer than 500 meters.  In some cases the units were in contact, actually fighting, and the enemy wasn't shown.

The only reason I could think of for that was that the CinC hadn't been updated yet on the positions of those enemy units.  Good to have confirmation from JMM on this.  But it's certainly not what we expect to happen, even if the behavior is coded correctly in the game, and I'm glad he's looking into it.

Hook

[Gunner24]

The units are less right on top of each other than you may think

I may have over done the "on top of each other" bit but they were close enough for the Cav to force Infantry into square and there was also some musket firing, which would not be "seen" on the 2d view untill it was all over.

In some cases the units were in contact, actually fighting, and the enemy wasn't shown.

This is what has been confusing me, with other things.

Thanks JMM for looking at this, I suspect it is to big a thing to change at this late stage but I think it is very important for people to understand this, as it can be very confusing.

I'm also a bit worried about how MP will be played as we pretty much agree most of it will need to be on the 2d map, but then you can not see the action on the 3d map as it happens on the 2d one - as it's already happened......this is what must have happened on the other topic I posted about an "action" on the 2d view which was not happening on the 3d view !.

[Hook]

If it's enough of a problem, play with unlimited visibility. 

There may be other ways to get the 2D map to update more frequently.  For example, manually sending an Aide-de-Camp to the corps commander.  Or using cavalry scouts. Or moving the CinC closer to the fighting, which is what I normally do.

If nothing else, this illustrates very well why the 3D map can't "hide" units that aren't spotted on the 2D map.  There will be cases where the CinC can actually see things that haven't been officially reported to him and shown on the 2D map.

The 2D map may make more sense if you set visibility on friendly troops to limited.  Of course, then you'll know even less about what's going on there, and you'll have to send the CinC close enough to see for himself.

I should think you'd love this new development, since it forces you to use the 3D view occasionally instead of relying on the 2D map all the time.  You do lock your view to F5 on the CinC, right?  No flying high over the battlefield to gain intelligence... that would be cheating.

Hook

[Gunner24]

You do lock your view to F5 on the CinC, right?  No flying high over the battlefield to gain intelligence... that would be cheating.

In MP games can the game host FORCE this on the other side ?, if not there is no way to enforce it.

I think if your fight with the Corps, then you sould see what those troops see.

I may be totaly wrong, but after a few trys I don't think many will use the "locked" to CiC view.

[Hook]

In MP games can the game host FORCE this on the other side ?, if not there is no way to enforce it.

I think if your fight with the Corps, then you sould see what those troops see.

I may be totaly wrong, but after a few trys I don't think many will use the "locked" to CiC view.

Grognard difficulty will set view "Locked to Army Commander".  This wasn't done in the demo.  This will allow you to use the F5 and F6 views from the CinC's location.

Try a game using the F6 view from the commander, either high or low (by pressing F6 a second time) and see what it's like.  F6 high will give you just enough visibility to order the HQ to move halfway across the map from the 3D view.  You can still zoom the camera for a telescopic view. 

I have no idea what happens in multiplayer where a player has his own corps.

Hook