HistWar

HistWar (Zone française) => Annonces => Discussion démarrée par: JMM le 13 mars 2015, 23:26:57 pm

Titre: HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 13 mars 2015, 23:26:57 pm
Bonjour...

Nouveau patch pour HistWar : Napoleon...

(http://screen.victwar.com/V%205.563.jpg)

http://www.histwar.org/mods/file.php?id=252 (http://www.histwar.org/mods/file.php?id=252)

Fraternité
JMM
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Waldi le 14 mars 2015, 00:55:24 am
merci pour ce patch, que je viens de télécharger. mais j'obtiens comme indicatif de la version 5f.561 (comme celui d'hier) et non pas 5f.563 comme indiqué sur le forum.. ??? Normal ??
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 14 mars 2015, 09:13:32 am
Bonjour,

Ce n'est pas normal...
Ce patch correspond à la version Release de HW:N
Il ne peut que fonctionner si on laisse faire l'installeur.

JMM
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Théodoricus le 14 mars 2015, 09:39:14 am
Merci pour ce patch qui a demandé beaucoup de travail et de vérifications.
Il ne reste plus qu'à trouver le temps de tester.

Théo
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: BUSSY le 14 mars 2015, 10:14:46 am
Merci pour le nouveau patch!

Installation impeccable, 5f.563
Enjoy ;)
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: EXELMANS le 14 mars 2015, 10:48:14 am
Merci pour ce patch  JMM!

Moi j'ai la version 5.563....... Pas de f!

"
apo Release : 15/03/09

NU   Package:   05f3
NU   SVN:xxx

   LGdN   Version Exe:5.563
   Serveur   Dll:08/6.3x2

NU  Shell   HistWar2: 1.001 
Doc Editor   Version Exe:2.380
Map Editor   Version Exe:2.580
OoB Editor   Version Exe:3.385
"
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: tof le 14 mars 2015, 11:16:19 am
pareil que Exelmans  :shock:
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Waldi le 14 mars 2015, 11:54:51 am
Je suis maladroit. J'avais fait une erreur de téléchargement. Tout fonctionne et tout est très beau. Parfait. Merci.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: EXELMANS le 14 mars 2015, 13:12:47 pm
A la vue de l'annonce de JMM la version est bien 5.563 et non 5f.563!
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: zu Pferd le 16 mars 2015, 20:45:43 pm
Bonjour à tous

où est l'armée prussienne 1806 dans la version OOB éditeur Exe: 3,385?

Cette armée ne peut se construire dans un scénario 1813...normal ?

merci

zu
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Belliard le 18 mars 2015, 20:29:45 pm
Merci. ;)
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: during le 27 mars 2015, 09:49:39 am
Bonjour JMM.

Téléchargé......en attendant de tester..

Salutations Marechal.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Eybasc le 01 mai 2015, 08:26:45 am
Bonjour à toute la communauté :

on parle beaucoup ces derniers temps sur ce forum, des patches destinés à la version HW Napoléon, attendus à juste titre avec impatience, et je salue le travail important que ces mises à jours nécessitent de la part des développeurs. Néanamoins je me risque à une question : la version HW Les Grognards fera-t-elle aussi l'objet de prochain patches ? Ou bien restera-t-elle en l'état et la priorité sera t-elle donnée désormais à HWN ?

Merci. Cordialement.
Titre: Re : Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 01 mai 2015, 19:29:04 pm
Bonjour à toute la communauté :

on parle beaucoup ces derniers temps sur ce forum, des patches destinés à la version HW Napoléon, attendus à juste titre avec impatience, et je salue le travail important que ces mises à jours nécessitent de la part des développeurs. Néanamoins je me risque à une question : la version HW Les Grognards fera-t-elle aussi l'objet de prochain patches ? Ou bien restera-t-elle en l'état et la priorité sera t-elle donnée désormais à HWN ?

Merci. Cordialement.

Bonjour.
Il y a une mise à jour de prévue pour HW:LG qui est dans les tuyaux.
C est une version qui doit intégrer toutes les modifications des 2 derniers patches de HW:N.
C est toutefois un gros travail de tests... est il possible que 2 ou 3 utilisateurs de HW:LG se manifestent pour quelques tests élémentaires... juste afin de ne pas diffuser un programme buggė à cause du portage des modifications dans HW:LG.
De plus HW:LG va continuer à évoluer afin de proposer les IA de division et brigade. Des correctifs continueront à voir le jour quand nécessaire.
A noter que le dernier patch de HW:LG était sorti alors qu il n y en avait pas eu durant 3 mois pour HW:N... juste histoire de dire que je ne laisse pas tomber HW:LG.

JMM








Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: redhot8359 le 07 mai 2015, 01:07:30 am
Bonjour JMM.

J'ai vu sur you tube une video que tu as posté "bataille de Aire sur l'Adour" qui met en scène des troupes Françaises contre des troupes Anglaises et Portugaises:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1DYdKmbBBM
Ces troupes Anglaises et Portugaises seront-elles bientôt disponibles?
 
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Eybasc le 12 septembre 2015, 08:52:21 am
Bonjour à la communauté ...

je me suis plaint quelquefois sur ce forum du manque d'informations dont nous disposions quant à l'avancement du développement : à quoi cela sert-il de mettre une rubrique News en page d'accueil si celle-ci n'est pas mise à jour régulièrement (dernière MAJ juillet 2014) ? Or voila  que je constate un peu par hasard que plusieurs messages très intéressants ont été postés en juillet et août 2015 par JMM et son équipe nous apportant ces informations dont sous sommes friants sur différents sujets (au passage comment pouvons nous être informés que de nouveaux messages ont été postés sur le blog, sauf à consulter le blog régulièrement !?)

Je salue cette excellente initiative ... et j'espère que ce n'est que le début.

Bon courage et bonne reprise à tous ...

Amicalement
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 17 septembre 2015, 16:45:55 pm
Bonjour,

Je suis réellement désolé...
Je pense avoir beaucoup avancé depuis presque un an sur la correction des petits et gros problèmes.
Depuis plus d'un mois je travaille sur le nouveau système de collision des entités afin d'éviter des problèmes.. probablement rares mais existant...

Il reste qu'actuellement, je continue à travailler mais avec une efficacité un peu moindre... je dois dire que je ressens un petit coup de blues.
Je pense que cela n'est pas vraiment anormal.. corriger des bugs est surement une des taches les plus délétères dans le développement.
Il est possible que je prenne réellement quelques jours de VRAIES vacances loin du clavier, assurant seulement la veille.
Je pense que cela est plus que nécessaire actuellement.. je le ressens profondément.

Ceci dit, ne soyez pas inquiet.. ce sera un petit arrêt pour un redémarrage efficace. Je suis plutôt très optimiste pour le futur car les développements sont très intéressants:
- IA Grande Tactique pour la rendre très réactive; j'ai déjà un peu planché sur le domaine,
- Gestion du nouveau moteur graphique pour les figurines : tout est à faire et c'est mieux ainsi.
- IA intermédiaire : les mécanismes sont déjà définis : reste à coder en s'appuyant sur l'existant,
- Passage en mesh de 100² quelque soit les dimensions des cartes : cela va dans la simplification du système actuel.
- Editeur de Campagne : tout est à faire.. et tant mieux.

Voila pour le point actuel... j'ai commencé le projet il y a plus de 20 ans et ne vais pas arrêter maintenant... il y a beaucoup de raisons à cela :-)
Toutefois, je suis désolé de ne pas pouvoir avancer comme je le souhaite.. mais mes neurones ont un besoin d'air...

Belle journée

JMM
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: thilio le 17 septembre 2015, 20:40:59 pm
Merci pour les infos JMM,

Bonnes vacances et bon repos!
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: sandman le 18 septembre 2015, 12:01:53 pm
Hello JMM,

its very important and constructive to recover from such a thing being deeply focused on for such a long time.

So take your time and stay consequently AFK until you feel hungry and inspired again.

Me for my part I expected, and I wrote it before, a stage near finalization of HW:N not before late 2016 or somewhen in 2017. So I aint disappointed.

All the best and a nice holiday
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 18 septembre 2015, 13:50:16 pm
Thank you for your suuport...
Really lucky to get this kind of understanding...
Have a nice day.
JMM
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Gunner24 le 18 septembre 2015, 16:53:14 pm
Hello JMM, thanks for the update, I keep watching from the sidelines with much interest......and really do hope to return to action one day. Best of luck from now to then.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Théodoricus le 19 septembre 2015, 09:57:31 am
Bonnes vacances, JMM.
Un petit arrêt pour aérer les neurones et pour un redémarrage efficace.

Théo
Titre: Re : Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: risorgimento59 le 19 septembre 2015, 14:11:02 pm
Bonjour,

Je suis réellement désolé...
Je pense avoir beaucoup avancé depuis presque un an sur la correction des petits et gros problèmes.
Depuis plus d'un mois je travaille sur le nouveau système de collision des entités afin d'éviter des problèmes.. probablement rares mais existant...

Il reste qu'actuellement, je continue à travailler mais avec une efficacité un peu moindre... je dois dire que je ressens un petit coup de blues.
Je pense que cela n'est pas vraiment anormal.. corriger des bugs est surement une des taches les plus délétères dans le développement.
Il est possible que je prenne réellement quelques jours de VRAIES vacances loin du clavier, assurant seulement la veille.
Je pense que cela est plus que nécessaire actuellement.. je le ressens profondément.

Ceci dit, ne soyez pas inquiet.. ce sera un petit arrêt pour un redémarrage efficace. Je suis plutôt très optimiste pour le futur car les développements sont très intéressants:
- IA Grande Tactique pour la rendre très réactive; j'ai déjà un peu planché sur le domaine,
- Gestion du nouveau moteur graphique pour les figurines : tout est à faire et c'est mieux ainsi.
- IA intermédiaire : les mécanismes sont déjà définis : reste à coder en s'appuyant sur l'existant,
- Passage en mesh de 100² quelque soit les dimensions des cartes : cela va dans la simplification du système actuel.
- Editeur de Campagne : tout est à faire.. et tant mieux.

Voila pour le point actuel... j'ai commencé le projet il y a plus de 20 ans et ne vais pas arrêter maintenant... il y a beaucoup de raisons à cela :-)
Toutefois, je suis désolé de ne pas pouvoir avancer comme je le souhaite.. mais mes neurones ont un besoin d'air...

Belle journée

JMM

Dear JMM,

Take your well deserved break and enjoy your weeks of rest.
I'll take mine in less than one month (destination Marsa Alam).  8)

Persuiting your goals/dreams for almost 20 years is a clear sign of character determination.
I wouldn't be able to keep up with that, honestly.
However, being a very uncommon approach in the industry, it raises some questions...
Premise: I don't want to hurt anybody.
I can only wish all the best to a potential tireless colleague and to his aficionados.
I'll speak frankly, while keeping myself very very far from destructively criticizing or disapproving your work.

Couple of natural questions then...

What does the HW project have become?
I can answer only from the customer angle: buying it (and it's not exactly gifted) has become increasingly a true act of faith.
Many (like me, hopeful) did in the past for Les Grognards, some (like me again, disillusioned) did for Napoleon, but the trend can't be positive at the given conditions.
So I don't see acceptable perspectives of gains/success (vs time/resources invested) for you and your partners either.
That sounds no good.

What about goals?
Following the evolution of the game, one could argue that you started, a long time ago, aiming for the ultimate simulation for hardcore Napoleonic enthusiasts, not caring too much about wonderful 3D and effects.
Worthy and interesting.
Then the baby had to face itself against the market graphical standards, so we saw outstanding terrains, lighting system, buildings and, I hope soon, units.
Unavoidable change of plans and thankfully you found the help of Romain.
Results so far: lot of bug fixing, many delays in features implementation, things like 3D - Sim inconsistencies (totally breaking my rare game experiences) considered kinda of minor issue, no optimization stage on view, and, last but not least, we've got our leader approaching dangerously the "burn out" stage.
That sounds even worse.

Final consideration...
Is realistically possible to merge the best of the two worlds then, say into an operational campaign with integrated battle mechanics (most ambitious case), for such a small team (I assume 1 lead programmer + 1 marginal programming support + artists)?
I think so, but it's an huge minefield.
It requires a lot of study and careful planning, closing with a 2-3 years all out development with no deviations.
Dragging it for 20 years proved to be somewhat counter-productive.
In game programming you might learn one thing that is obsolete after few month, figure it out...
And, personal experience, while coding it's so hard to have the mental elasticity to study/experiment/imagine in depth.
Also, most importantly, it shall be a constant, genuinely obsessive, tradeoff among aesthetics, gameplay realism, efficiency and resources.
Examples:
Seamless worlds is not a problem anymore once we've got advanced LOD techniques + multithreading (background preparation of tiles).
Procedural techniques are also worth being investigated.
AI LOD, taking into consideration the impact of any abstraction for the gameplay, is an essential tool.
Updating the AI of thousands of officers and units can be realistically achieved by explotation of the overall lack of dynamism (compared with 60hz of course) intrinsic in Napoleonic Warfare and multithreading.
Like spreading the learning's explorations of an army general's decision across minutes...
Coordinated movement can be done quickly with stuff like flow fields pathfinding and buildings made interactable via NavMeshes?
Melees space-temporal coherency keept abstracted on grids with "waves" flooding at variable rates, so you can simulate in detail only what you're showing (central theme arising very often).
If that melee exits from the camera's frustum and then regain focus, you'll be able to recreate a reasonable situation that was updated meanwhile very efficiently.
Etc.

I'd also be happy to share a little part of route with you, JMM.
If my help'd be welcome.
But there're way too many knots need to be resolved as a precondition.
So, if I'm allowed, just one suggestion...
Take some restoring breathe and reflect on the overall picture before charging like a bull VC++ once again.
Your gigantic efforts and obstinacy deserve better outcomes.

Respectfully yours,
Nicolò
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: GénéraL GuiLLauMe le 21 septembre 2015, 10:28:02 am
Petit coucou pour apporter mon soutien indéfectible à JMM et à sa noble cause ;) . En te souhaitant un bon repos, il faut recharger les batteries pour l'hiver :) .

Mais c'est vrai qu'une petite news sur le site me paraitrait nécessaire pour l'image du jeu...  :p Et les nombreux fidèles qui comme moi suivent de loin la progression du développement.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 21 septembre 2015, 22:22:40 pm
Hi risorgimento59,

I'll be back to answer to your questions ASAP ;)

Il est vrai que je ne prends pas le temps de mettre à jour le site et les pages.. pourtant beaucoup d'éléments ont eu lieu depuis un an...
Je vais essayer de profiter de cette pause sur le développement pour mettre à jour...

Maybe some informations on the blog (in French only  :roll:
Peut être à voir sur le blog :
http://www.jm-mathe.fr/ (http://www.jm-mathe.fr/)

JMM

Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: Belliard le 22 septembre 2015, 09:38:57 am
Bon repos Boss.  ;)
Titre: Re : Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: risorgimento59 le 04 décembre 2015, 10:25:32 am
Glad to hear you're back in business and with fresh motivations, JMM. :)

Hi risorgimento59,

I'll be back to answer to your questions ASAP ;)

Sorry for stressing once again... but there's no way to get a reply to my old message, yet?
Seriously, I'd like to know, if possible of course, your overall plan and the path HWN is gonna take from now on.
It's not easy to understand that from your activity and design choices. Not for me at least.
Thank you in advance and keep up the good work.
Nicolò
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: JMM le 04 décembre 2015, 10:59:08 am
Hi Nicolo,

Citer
What does the HW project have become?
I can answer only from the customer angle: buying it (and it's not exactly gifted) has become increasingly a true act of faith.
Many (like me, hopeful) did in the past for Les Grognards, some (like me again, disillusioned) did for Napoleon, but the trend can't be positive at the given conditions.
So I don't see acceptable perspectives of gains/success (vs time/resources invested) for you and your partners either.
That sounds no good.

Maybe we must not look at this project like a "normal" one... I know I will not get a lot of money with this game. No really a problem... Just I want to finish it.
After 2 months, I resume my activity with a good interest... fixing the last issues in the engine, improving the AIs, implementing the new 3D models... No really a huge task if we compare to the set.

For the other questions...
I don't want to give you a lot of details... but the new 3D engine in progress will be the best for this kind of game.
For several months, Romain, Laurent, Eli and me (just 2 months without activity for me; Romain's activities are more underground) work on the game but we don't wish to show anything.
For example, Laurent builds the data base for the regiments (graphical parts.. it is a huge DB...)
Eli : after finishing the new UI (almost all functions are operational; for all, we have to work together), he is working on the different functions for implementing the game on Steam.

I hope that this is clear :-)
That said, I don't have any doubt about the future of this game... just need a bit of time.. and for you a huge patience.

Napoleonic regards

JMM

Titre: Re : Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: risorgimento59 le 04 décembre 2015, 14:43:31 pm
Hi Nicolo,

Maybe we must not look at this project like a "normal" one... I know I will not get a lot of money with this game. No really a problem... Just I want to finish it.
After 2 months, I resume my activity with a good interest... fixing the last issues in the engine, improving the AIs, implementing the new 3D models... No really a huge task if we compare to the set.

For the other questions...
I don't want to give you a lot of details... but the new 3D engine in progress will be the best for this kind of game.
For several months, Romain, Laurent, Eli and me (just 2 months without activity for me; Romain's activities are more underground) work on the game but we don't wish to show anything.
For example, Laurent builds the data base for the regiments (graphical parts.. it is a huge DB...)
Eli : after finishing the new UI (almost all functions are operational; for all, we have to work together), he is working on the different functions for implementing the game on Steam.

I hope that this is clear :-)
That said, I don't have any doubt about the future of this game... just need a bit of time.. and for you a huge patience.

Napoleonic regards

JMM

Thank you, JMM.
Now it's much more clear.
I was suspecting this project didn't born and grew up with the utmost commercial ambitions, of course.
This is fine and interesting under many aspects, in my opinion.
For example, it could unload some pressure and allow taking more risks in the design decisions.
Which, if they turn into success, may pay their dividends as well (both commercially and as personal satisfaction).

I don't understand what's the game's target technical evolution, though.
I mean, coding a real-time tactical (*) simulation of Napoleonic Warfare, on a large scale and realistically, is challenging by definition.

* I know it's another pair of shoes, but I'd argue that tactical representation of Napoleonic battles doesn't make much sense either...
It was the first age where the operational level of war came to light consistently.
Maneuver and fighting merged into a continuum.
To my knowledge, it was rather hard, especially in the late years, to subvert the verdict of the operational context.
I feel so much this lack in every game released so far.

Let's move back to the point, one could basically follow two paths (you'll understand this better than me for sure): cutdown features and simplyfing as necessary (a lot in the given case due to its intrisic complexity), or pushing limits a bit further and accept the resulting developement efforts.

The advisable approach for a small devteam, from my very personal point of view, is to keep the best energies for something that could distinguish their product.
Scourge of War is a visible example of this.
It's no mistery it's unbelievably badly engineered and full of coding errors, but is also fairly unique in its genre ("command experience") and, I'd bet, it's gonna be more appreciated than Histwar for the coming months, if not years.
And we've got Napoleon Total War on the opposite extreme in the past.

Histwar is ambitious and mostly "carino" everywhere.
It has wonderful terrains, but as I said, I will always feel "in an iron cage" without a larger-scale scope or meaning.
It'll have wonderful 3D models now, but if you aren't going to spend much time in coding an advanced LOD system (geometrical + flat per-joint polypostor + ... + flat per-character impostor + any exploitable optimization from multithreaded matrix palette updating, shared animation clips... to HW Instancing, etc.), it will show its drawbacks and will call for more and more efforts in turn, because I guess people will notice remarkably the lack of detailed situations like coordinated melees, etc.
UI seems coming together nicely. Nothing to say.
Gameplay is intricate on the other hand and never gave me entirely the SOWWL feelings, discouraging even to learn or watching it carefully then.
Chain of command, lack of dynamism, etc. are key concepts.
However the gaming experience must be taken into consideration.
They have to marry somehow. No dual representations, please... :(
Sounds, physics (roundshots?), garrisonable buildings, networking, modability, etc. don't shine either.

Really, if decisions would be up to me, I'd stick to "stardards" in all fields (which is not simple on its own) but the operational-tactical continuum.
It would require heavy multithreading, resources streaming, procedural generation of map elements perhaps, IA and graphical LODs.
I think it'd doable, at least for something like 1815...
An huge challenge, true...
At least you could have the chance to be remembered for something "new", if not making some profits out of it.

In the case you're going to focus on something "unordinary", I'd be also interested in helping.
I think I'm fairly decent in pushing things to limits (and also to break them or everthing! :D) and I caught some peculiarities of Napoleonic Warfare in an efficiency perspective that might come in handy.
And I need to add something tangible to exhibit in my CV as game programmer.
Let me know.

Cheers.
Nicolò
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: MarshalJean le 04 décembre 2015, 15:50:45 pm
Want to put in my two cents, real quick. 

Honestly, although it has been hard going for SOOOO long, often without any word whatsoever on how much work is being done, or not done, I have to say that I would not be in favor AT ALL of changing the basic approach HistWar has taken.  Although I know that comparisons to NTW and Scourge of War are going to happen (and it is fair to make comparisons), I think HistWar actually has been doing something fairly unique from those games, all along.  I would disagree with anyone who would suggest that HistWar should move toward either game in terms of its direction.  In fact, I would say that trying to become more like Scourge of War or NTW actually WOULD destroy the appeal of HistWar.  What HistWar brings to the table that neither of those other games can bring, is the ability to build an historical map, an historical OoB (or fictional one), and tweak doctrines, then play the battle all in the same afternoon.  While Scourge of War is technically "moddable," it takes an absolute eternity to to build an OoB not already based on those that ship with the game.  If you want to re-create and fight Austerlitz?  Forget about doing it, unless you and a bunch of highly skilled texture modders have dozens of hours to create meticulous OoBs, maps, and new unit sprites.  NTW's inability to actually model Napoleonic warfare in any kind of historical way is a given, among fans of HistWar, so I won't even go down that road.  So, what you have with HistWar, even with its incredibly slow evolution, is still a game that holds an exclusive niche in Napoleonic gaming, simply because of the ease of the editors.  If players need an operational side to the game (while we wait for it to be included, probably only years from now, to be honest), there are plenty of operational games out there that can model larger movements that can then be resolved tactically by HistWar.  Honestly, I use a lot of Napoleonic board games for this purpose, then translate the battles to HistWar, then translate the results back to the board game (or other PC game) knowing that I am using results that don't look like the end of a modern warfare game where one side is completely slaughtered, but results that look like a realistic Napoleonic confrontation.  So for a grand tactical simulation, HistWar continues to hold a place of its own...even with its all its flaws.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: risorgimento59 le 04 décembre 2015, 16:41:35 pm
Sorry...
I haven't compared HWN to SOW or NTW at all.
I just think they're both going to be more played (also among our "niche") because they've got something more recognizable.
NTW for its graphics and modability (worse AI ever though, small scale engagements).
SOW for its commanding experience (outdated graphics and flawed low-level implementations).
I also haven't suggested that HW should change its basic design.
Just improving toward something more recognizable (you can consider ideas that are already in, but need to be polished and expanded, as well).
Operational layer was just an example, though I believe we start to disagree from the word "resolve".
There's nothing to resolve in facts.
An initiative taken during a marginal skirmishing at a crossroad, can have an impact of greater order of magnitude in the final outcomes of a war, than whole corps sent forward a day later.
Like a rearguard action or failed contact after a battle lost or won can make all the difference of the world.
At an higher/macroscopic scale, just consider the importance of the dynamics of operational concentration of forces to a battlefield...
This "continuum" is the real revolution on Napoleonic Wars and I've never seen it caught by any game.
It's just my opinion, of course, and I understand it's very hard to code.
Ciao.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: MarshalJean le 04 décembre 2015, 18:06:16 pm
I appreciate your clarifications, but I think our basic disagreement still boils down to what we are wanting from a game like this, which was really my original point to begin with.  I'm still not sure what you mean by "recognizable," it's a term that screams for definition in a conversation like this.

But, my point is that what makes this game stand out (more recognizable???  :) is the ability to create such massive battles, with so many different opponents, using a broad range of unit types, with historically based doctrines anywhere from 1805-15, in such a short period of time.  This is what I want the most, in a game like this.  And no other game can do it.  When I want to fight just Waterloo for the 100th time, I guess Scourge of War will do.  When I just want to watch a beautiful company-sized unit fire muskets for a few minutes, then NTW will do.  But when I want to re-create literally any battle from 1805-1815 and then fight it out in a few hours, no other game even offers me this option.  This game does.  For me, that's what "recognizable" means, I guess.

MJ
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: risorgimento59 le 04 décembre 2015, 18:10:38 pm
Sorry for my poor English.  :oops: :lol:
I mean a game that can mark some important differences on the other ones, obviously.

Your considerations make sense.
Nevertheless, the fact that HW allows to recreate quickly and quite realistically a wide range of engagements and that SOWWL, NTW, WON, COTD, etc. fullfill different demands, doesn't imply that we've got enough to simulate them in the detail, from the perspective and consistency (as they don't communicate) I would like.
Basically I believe there's much more to exploit from current hardware generation (with the right programming techniques, of course) than what we've seen so far.
Even so, I'm fully aware small indipendent devteams cannot build the perfect game.
From there comes my idea of "distinguishing" on significant aspects...
Unfortunately I will never find enough free time to "re-create literally any battle from 1805-1815". And I neither want to, maybe. Joking. :p
But it may be a rather subjective criteria.
Just different point of views I think.
Excuse again my English.
Ciao.
Titre: Re : HistWar Napoleon : 05f (RC3)
Posté par: MarshalJean le 04 décembre 2015, 20:19:03 pm
No need to apologize, my friend.  Your English is perfect enough for me to understand.  And I probably know way less of your first language, so I will never be one to talk.  :)

Thank you for the good conversation.