Austrians tactics until 1807

[Marquês de Alorna]

Just to call your attention for this discussion about Austrian tactics:

http://www.histwar.org/forum/index.php/topic,5337.45.html

[Count von Csollich]

all you have stated here is true....

nevertheless, the Austrian soldiers still was well trained with the bayonet - even in 1805 - BUT he had no training in firing/loading at all - as the Austrian Army granted each soldier a total of 10 shots fired a year - probably as much as every french soldier discharged each day at the camp de Boulogne! - so the Austrian soldier was no match for his French counterpart in a firefight!
this must have been worse than a fight between a British 100 Gun Ship of the line (1st Rate) and a French Ship of the line (80 Guns - for example the "Bucentaure")  

maybe this topic would be better suited for the  "History & Tactics" section though!

CvC

[Marquês de Alorna]

maybe this topic would be better suited for the  "History & Tactics" section though!

CvC

My insistence with this regards the current control over doctrine that HWLG offers right now. It is currently impossible to have the AI control the troops in XVIIIth century fashion, since the Deploy and Defend order parameters on the doctrine editor do not allow the enforcement of line as the  maneuver formation. This is to say that the French and Austrians are managed in a similar way by the AI, e.g. using the attack column for the Austrians. This precludes accurate simulation of pre-1807 French-Austrian historical battles.

But I also wanted to add another note. Basic columnar tactics were easier to execute (easier to execute correctly or not - truth must be said that most often the columns rapidly transformed into swarms instead of lines when close to the enemy) by poorly trained troops. To quit elaborate tactics allowed the French to field large numbers of troops, always outnumbering the Austrians during the Revolutionary Wars. It was numbers - not the tactical "miracle" of the column itself - that won several battles. After 1807 we start to see the allies also fielding increasingly huge numbers of infantrymen, concomitantly with the use of the column becoming standardized.

[Count von Csollich]

well, I think it has already been discussed many times that this is still missing.....main priorities were on fixing the game and making it smoothly playable.....which was achieved!

JMM knows about your, and many others', wish to change the doctrine settings - when he had some rest (and I recommend a well deserved EXTENSIVE rest) he will look into it when he thinks all other things of greater importance have been dealt with!

to your note...of course you are right - this is the bacis idea of Napoleonics.....the French revolutionary army was ill fed and ill equipped but through the huge number of men the French could field it was strong! - Napoleon changed the first two problems - making his army - a "Grande" Armée in many ways!
nevertheless Napoleon didn't win the battles just because he had the column...or maybe more men.....he won because he was superior in almost every sector important on the battlefield....in the first few years of his success!

CvC

[Marquês de Alorna]

well, I think it has already been discussed many times that this is still missing.....main priorities were on fixing the game and making it smoothly playable.....which was achieved!
JMM knows about your, and many others', wish to change the doctrine settings - when he had some rest (and I recommend a well deserved EXTENSIVE rest) he will look into it when he thinks all other things of greater importance have been dealt with!

Agreed.

nevertheless Napoleon didn't win the battles just because he had the column...or maybe more men.....he won because he was superior in almost every sector important on the battlefield....in the first few years of his success!

Of course. With the same tools, Napoleon usually managed to perform much better. Although Wellington is to some people the evidence that he was not the best. But this leads to long debate, which is out of scope here.

[Marquês de Alorna]

JMM knows about your, and many others', wish to change the doctrine settings - when he had some rest (and I recommend a well deserved EXTENSIVE rest) he will look into it when he thinks all other things of greater importance have been dealt with!

I must add a note for those who are new to the game. I've never seen another Napoleonic tactical simulator that modeled this difference between the French army and the old-fashioned armies like the Austrian. So what I see in HWLG is precisely the capability to do it in the best way, which is not true for others.